Interview with Thomas Dunlop, 1984 April 30 [audio](part 2)

Hagley ID:
  • Hayrides and the Fourth of July; Father's flowers; Alcohol and tobacco use; Keeping an ice box; Local politics; Hair and hairstyles
    Keywords: Alcohol; Dahlias; Du Pont, S. Hallock (Samuel Hallock), 1901-1974; Flowers; Fourth of July; Hair; Hairstyles; Ice boxes; Tobacco
    Transcript: Mrs. Dunlop: I was the one gave him the order, and he probably wouldn't remember that. Up until we got a phone, and then we phoned it in.Johnson: Tell me more about the hayrides.

    Dunlop: Well, that's when I was a young fellow, before I was married. We used to hire Shields' trucks, big lumber trucks, fill them up with hay. We used to go to Lenape, Fourth of July, leave at eight o'clock, nine o'clock in the morning, and I don't know how many hours - the fastest they'd go would be about five mile an hour. And we'd get back at dark.

    Johnson: That must have been fun.

    Dunlop: Oh, it was fun.

    Johnson: About how many people would go on a ride?

    Dunlop: Oh my, I've seen two truckloads, three truckloads, and, let's see, well there'd be plenty of them. I've seen as high as 75 go up there.

    Johnson: And what would you do when you got there, would you bring lunch?

    Dunlop: Well, we went up and spent our money, what we had, up there on the merry-go-rounds and the ice cream and all that stuff.

    Johnson: Was that like an amusement park there?

    Dunlop: Yeah, they had an amusement park: Lenape still - I think they still have it up there.

    Johnson: And did they have fireworks up there?

    Dunlop: Yeah, they had fireworks. Yeah, in the old days the girls had a basketball team, they wore them bloomers when they played, big bloomers. Yeah, I remember - I remember a lot of them - they were older than I was, some of them, I know they was, they were all good players.

    Johnson: Do you remember if you had flowers when you were little, flowers growing around your house?

    Dunlop: Flowers, yeah, Daddy had a lot of flowers. What was them he had?

    Mrs. Dunlop: He raised prize-winning dahlias.

    Dunlop: Dahlias, yeah, he sold them to Spackman and a lot of them. There is nothing much that Dad didn't do, even 'til he worked during the day, he always put a lot of time in.

    Mrs. Dunlop: Yes, we always had fresh vegetables and fresh flowers in season, for the house.

    Johnson: What about tobacco, did your father smoke?

    Dunlop: Yeah, he smoked Piedmont cigarettes, and that's where I used to snitch one and tried it and I didn't like them too much. I stopped smoking in 1954 and I stopped drinking in 1953. I have no alcohol, I wanted to live a while so that's what I done.

    Johnson: I don't think they realized that years ago...

    Dunlop: Well, the reason I quit smoking, after I quit drinking, I had a nervous breakdown nearly - I quit too fast and the man x-rayed me and he called me in the black room and told me to look at - want to see some x-rays, and said to him, I said, "I didn't know you took colored people in here. Look at how black them lungs are." He said, "That's yours.” I said, "Oh, my." That was the end of me, all them tars and everything, I quit. I waited fifteen days and I quit - she'll tell you, I ain't touched a cigarette or nothin'. Just like here, I've got some Irish whiskey if you want a shot, I've got some wine from Greece if you want a shot, and I've got some beer if you want a shot.

    Johnson: Have you been to Greece - did you go to Greece?

    Dunlop: No, a friend of mine - that's - they're Greeks that have that store, Greeks next door.

    Johnson: Do you remember anybody being sick when you were a child? And did they have to call the doctor when you were little, do you remember anything about that?

    Dunlop: No, I seen, well some people when the flu was around was bad, a lot of them passed away.

    Johnson: Do you remember anything about that?

    Dunlop: No, I just forget now. I knew one boy went gunning up on the old golf course and fell over a wall and shot his arm off and bled to death - his name was Peppy Biddle. And Peppy Biddle's mother died going across Lammot Copeland's lawn, you went up the hill by Hagee's. She died of a heart attack.

    Johnson: That must have been a shock to find somebody on your lawn.

    Dunlop: Well, there's a lot of things I can remember, I mean, as I say, if I could just, you know, get my mind, but I just been fooling around the last few days since the other girl - what's her name called?

    Johnson: Mary Joe DiAngelo? Yes, she's the secretary to the man who is in charge of the interviews.

    Dunlop: She called me and I've been meditating a little bit on it because I - going back as many years as that, that's a good while, you know, you just visualize, you start visualizing what's going on, you know.

    Johnson: Do you remember if there was an icebox in the kitchen, when the iceman came around, do you remember putting the ice in?

    Dunlop: Yeah, 50 pound or 25 pound, I think we had a 25-pound box.

    Mrs. Dunlop: Yes, your mother, too.

    Dunlop: You had to have money to get them big 50-pound box, icebox.

    Johnson: Yes. And was it - whose job was it to empty the drip pan every day?

    Dunlop: I guess Mother did it all the time. You don't remember that far back to you?

    Johnson: Well, when we were little, we had the iceman come around and all the children would follow that cart and try to get chips, you know, that was a big thing.

    Mrs. Dunlop: We had a springhouse too, out there, out there on Hallock's place.

    Dunlop: Oh, yeah, yeah.

    Johnson: Did you say that was on Hallock's place, the springhouse?

    Mrs. Dunlop: Yes, we lived on the estate.

    Dunlop: That's right where the - going into the Hagley. See they cut that road off, you know. When you go in up at the top by St. Joseph's cemetery, the first house you come to used to belong to Broadwater, and then that's where the next house is Hallock du Pont's drive. And down a little further this side the Hall of Records, there used to be two houses there. I lived in one and Dougherty lived in the other. That was long before, you know, and then afterwards there was other people came in, but that's the originals, we were the originals went there.

    Johnson: Where was the springhouse, would that have been on Barley Mill Road there?

    Dunlop: In the backyard - and we had a ninety-some foot well there, driven well, I mean it's electric pump and all. Father Dougherty lived there next door to us, I don't know how long Father Dougherty stayed there. He retired, died at St. Thomas', he was a nice priest. That's what I say, they were all nice people up there. Just like I say, there's two things I don't argue about is politics and religion, cause nobody knows anything about them (laughs) that's the way I feel about life.

    Johnson: Speaking of politics, do you remember any politicians coming, or voting or anything like that when you were little?

    Dunlop: No, I don't remember. They had some old days when I was a kid, they used to storm up parades and everything. And in Wilson's time and all that - I remember the buttons they used to put out, but I can't think of them now. But they used to celebrate at Pat Dougherty's on that, that's the saloon, I remember that.

    Johnson: Was that a polling place, the saloon, or they just celebrated after, I guess.

    Dunlop: No, I don't think they - I don't know where the polling place was. But that Pete Kindbeiter, he had both legs off, you know, yeah he had the store close to old Pat Dougherty. My memory ain't as good as it used to be, I can't remember what happened yesterday (laughs). I don't - remember more when I was younger than I do now.

    Johnson: What were some of the things you stored in the springhouse?

    Dunlop: In the springhouse?

    Johnson: What did you store in the springhouse?

    Dunlop: Butter.

    Mrs. Dunlop: Butter - mostly meat.

    Johnson: Would you buy that butter from ...

    Mrs. Dunlop: Yes.

    Johnson: Did you have an icebox at that time and use both the springhouse and the icebox?

    Dunlop: It kept it cooler and saved your money.

    Johnson: Did you wear a hat when you were younger?

    Dunlop: No, I don't think I did - I was a blonde.

    Johnson: How about your mother, did she wear a hat?

    Dunlop: No.

    Johnson: Do you remember anything about the way she wore her hair?

    Dunlop: She had black hair - did Mother wear it straight back?

    Mrs. Dunlop: A bun in the back.

    Johnson: Did she part her hair in the middle, or part it...

    Mrs. Dunlop: No.
  • Pockets and sewing; Pets; Buying and repairing shoes; Serving newspapers; Nicknames
    Keywords: Barber shops; Dogs; Haircuts; Locks; Newspapers; Nicknames; Pets; Pockets; Sewing; Shoes
    Transcript: Johnson: Would you know what your mother might have in pockets, if she went out, or a man would have in his pockets?

    Dunlop: No - it sure wasn't money, I can tell you that (laughs).

    Johnson: What did your mother wear around the house, do you remember what kind of dress she would be likely to have worn?

    Dunlop: Gingham, wasn't it? That's all I ever seen, Gingham.

    Mrs. Dunlop: Mother Hubbard, you know, they're straight.

    Johnson: Did she make those dresses herself?

    Mrs. Dunlop: I made them after I married Herb, after I married him, I used to sew for her.

    Johnson: Do you remember if she sewed at all, or …

    Mrs. Dunlop: No, she didn't sew.

    Dunlop: She didn't sew.

    Mrs. Dunlop: She used to have some of her clothes made by a woman she knew, but then when I married him, I sewed for her.

    Johnson: That was real nice - that was nice that you could do stuff for her.

    Dunlop: She's making up for grandson - one of her …

    Johnson: That is beautiful.

    Mrs. Dunlop: It's the 17th one I've made.

    Johnson: It's really pretty.

    Dunlop: Yeah, she's got a lot of them. Even the dog got one, her dog, made one for the dog.

    Johnson: That's a lucky dog.

    Dunlop: He's really a lucky dog, I'll tell you - somebody dropped him six months ago and my daughter put an ad in the paper and saw the S.P.A. and everybody else and nobody claimed him, so she claimed him and he's a darling.

    Johnson: He's very lovable.

    Dunlop: Yeah, he loves to devil. She ought to be here by now, they're down - they went down Friday morning to Ocean City, down to a condominium.

    Johnson: Ocean City, New Jersey, or Maryland?

    Dunlop: Maryland, yeah, yeah.

    Johnson: Did you have pets as a child - did you have dogs or cats to play with?

    Dunlop: Did I have what?

    Johnson: A dog or a cat, did you have them when you were a child?

    Dunlop: Oh yeah, one time I have 31 coon dogs - that's right, field followed them all up. And we had a dog names Rex, he was a - he got run over by the milkman. Tod got run over, one of the coon dogs got run over with the milkman. Yeah we've had many a dogs at a time. Cat too - one of the cats name was Fuzzy?

    Mrs. Dunlop: I don't know.

    Dunlop: One of Pop's cats.

    Mrs. Dunlop: Oh yeah, Fuzzy.

    Dunlop: Fuzzy, yeah, he used to jump into your hands, but they were different cats out there. They never stayed in the house, you know, it's just like a farm out there, you had plenty of room to roam.

    Johnson: And the cats would help by catching the mice.

    Dunlop: They'd go out every night.

    Johnson: Did many people wear glasses when you were little?

    Dunlop: I wouldn't say - I can't remember that. Who made up these questions? They had to be a genius to write them ones.

    Johnson: They have so many questions. You've already told me about barefoot and where you - did you buy your shoes downtown, when you got shoes, did you have to go downtown for them?

    Dunlop: Yeah.

    Johnson: Do you remember going to that shoemaker that they had on Main Street: somebody mentioned a shoemaker?

    Dunlop: No, I never went to him, no, no.

    Johnson: But I think he just repaired the shoes.

    Mrs. Dunlop: You mean up the creek?

    Johnson: Yes, yes.

    Mrs. Dunlop: We used to take the kids' shoes down the creek.

    Dunlop: Who was that?

    Mrs. Dunlop: Down there in the shoemaker's place on Main Street. We used to get the shoes repaired there, the children's shoes.

    Dunlop: I can't think of his name.

    Mrs. Dunlop: I can't either.

    Dunlop: No, I can't think of his name.

    Johnson: Was it Elwood?

    Dunlop: Did anybody ever bring it up: the shoemaker?

    Johnson: Somebody said Devy Elwood, I think that's the name.

    Dunlop: What's the name?

    Johnson: Devy Elwood - the Methodist shoemaker.

    Mrs. Dunlop: I remember that.

    Johnson: Somebody mentioned him in an interview.

    Mrs. Dunlop: I can't remember the name.

    Johnson: Did people have locks on their doors, do you remember locking the house?

    Dunlop: No, it was wide open - don't try it today.

    Johnson: Did you have a back door and a front door?

    Dunlop: Back door, front door, side door.

    Johnson: I've asked you most of these - did they have a scissors grinder?

    Dunlop: No.

    Johnson: Did your family subscribe to a newspaper or magazine?

    Dunlop: Yep, I used to serve papers when I was a kid. People by the name of Lundys had - did you ever hear them say that - Lundys?

    Johnson: No.

    Dunlop: And from there I used to - well, I used to take all Main Street, Walker's Banks, Long Row, Barley Mill Lane, Breck's Lane and up to Greenville, all carried by – I only had the one paper, that was the Journal and Every Evening - they had two papers then. And my sister, she carried after I did, and both my kids know.

    Mrs. Dunlop: The both boys.

    Dunlop: Both my boys served as paperboys.

    Johnson: Yes. How long would it take you to deliver all those papers?

    Dunlop: About an hour and a half: sometimes two, just depend on the weather.

    Johnson: And you'd do that after school?

    Dunlop: Yep.

    Johnson: Did you have a bicycle?

    Dunlop: No.

    Johnson: Just walked?

    Dunlop: No, I walked.

    Johnson: Do you remember the weather, was it snowy: remember walking in the snow?

    Dunlop: Well, it took a long while when it was snowing.

    Johnson: Do you remember any nicknames for people when you were little?

    Dunlop: Well, people that had the paper route, his name was Pony Lundy.

    Johnson: Why did they call him that, do you know?

    Dunlop: Huh?

    Johnson: Do you know why they called him Pony?

    Dunlop: No: and this fellow that just passed away, his name was Dunky Rowe.

    Johnson: That's cute.

    Dunlop: Let's see: I can't think of any right now, but there used to be more than that.

    Johnson: Do you know how they got their nicknames?

    Dunlop: No, it's hard to believe - I could tell you that: they used to call me Scotty - born in Scotland, but I ain't never heard that since I left there.

    Johnson: Do you remember where you got your hair cut?

    Dunlop: Conley's - barber shop on Main Street: John Conley.

    Johnson: Did they have different places for men and women to get their hair cut?

    Dunlop: Not as I know of: I don't remember a woman getting her hair cut in Conley's.
  • Household objects
    Keywords: Axes; Castor oil; Chairs; Clothes wringers; Coal oil; Coffee pots; Couches; Fels Naptha soap; Iodine; Irons (pressing); Kerosene; Knives; Lamps; Medicine; Mousetraps; Silverware; Soap; Soapstone griddles; Stoves; Tables; Tea pots; Tea sets; Towels; Wash tubs
    Transcript: Johnson: And as curling, dyeing and permanents come in – you probably wouldn't know about that. What do you remember as the main object in your kitchen?

    Dunlop: (Laughs) Boy, what a question.

    Mrs. Dunlop: A big, old black stove - do you remember?

    Dunlop: Yeah, that's about it.

    Johnson: Did your mother have to polish that stove?

    Dunlop: Yeah, black stove, yeah.

    Johnson: Do you remember the lamps that your mother had?

    Dunlop: The what?

    Johnson: Did she have lamps?

    Dunlop: Yeah.

    Johnson: Oil lamps?

    Dunlop: Oil lamps: had a big wick in there - they'd light a whole big room up.

    Johnson: Was it white?

    Dunlop: Bright, yeah, bright lights. Silver bottom - and they were beautiful, they'd throw as much light as any electric in the house. Coal oil.

    Johnson: Do you remember anything about your living room, what objects in the living room that stand out?

    Dunlop: No. I don't think there were - no, I couldn't say.

    Johnson: Did your mother have a sofa like this to sit on?

    Dunlop: I don't even remember that, do you know of a sofa?

    Mrs. Dunlop: She had the leather sofa.

    Dunlop: Leather sofa?

    Mrs. Dunlop: But that was in the other room, like a reading room.

    Dunlop: In the living room?

    Mrs. Dunlop: No, she had chairs - she had a big long - what they call a couch, in those days, you know the couches were long, she had a couch in there, we called them couch, but I don't know what they call them today.

    Johnson: I guess somebody could lie down on them if they needed to. Do you remember what your most cherished possession was as a child?

    Dunlop: No, you got me now.

    Johnson: Or your father's, is there anything he had you weren’ t allowed to touch? And they said what was your favorite toy, but you said - we have a list of things here that I'm supposed to ask you - if you remember if your mother or father owned these things - an axe?

    Dunlop: Axe? Yeah.

    Johnson: How about a gem pan, muffin tin.

    Dunlop: Never heard of it.

    Johnson: Muffin tin - no - your mother probably had - do you remember anything about her baking pans - did she bring baking pans from Scotland?

    Dunlop: No, I don't think so. Oh, she brought a tea set over – she had her tea set over, yeah. They were worth money, I don't know how they got broke up.

    Mrs. Dunlop: The silver, you know her silver.

    Dunlop: Brought her silver over.

    Johnson: Oh, where did she keep that?

    Dunlop: I don't know who got them or what happened to them.

    Johnson: But when you were little, would it have been in the kitchen or in the dining room?

    Mrs. Dunlop: No, it was in the dining room.

    Johnson: Did she have a coffee pot?

    Dunlop: A coffee pot? Yeah. Mostly a tea pot, she was a great tea drinker. I don't think we ever had much coffee in our house, don't remember coffee.

    Johnson: Did she have a big kettle on the stove?

    Dunlop: Yeah, big kettle.

    Johnson: Dishpan?

    Dunlop: Dishpan, yeah.

    Johnson: What did it look like?

    Dunlop: Agate.

    Johnson: Did she have a towel rack?

    Dunlop: Towel rack? I think Mother had a clothesline in the kitchen, where she put the towels and where she put her wash sometimes.

    Johnson: Yes, but the towel, then, would dry out, if she dried the dishes. Do you know what the towels were like, were they linen?

    Dunlop: No.

    Mrs. Dunlop: She made a lot of them out of them feed bags, you know, used to get the feed bags for the chickens, you know, feed - chicken feed.

    Dunlop: Chicken feed, that’ s right, yeah.

    Mrs. Dunlop: And she used to make the towels out of them, you know, bleach them.

    Johnson: Oh, yes, that's just the sort of thing they like to know.

    Dunlop: See, she ought to quiz her instead of me (laughs).

    Mrs. Dunlop: See, I was there all the time. I took an interest in everything, you know, that was there 'cause it was all new to me and I loved his mother.

    Johnson: And what was her wash tub like, was it wooden?

    Mrs. Dunlop: No, it was a galvin - well, she had a wooden one and a galvanized one for rinsing, you know.

    Johnson: Would she have three tubs altogether: some people...

    Mrs. Dunlop: Just two - two.

    Johnson: Just two. Do you remember anything about the soap she used?

    Mrs. Dunlop: No, well we used to use that Fels Naptha.

    Dunlop: Fels Naptha, I remember that.

    Mrs. Dunlop: But I remember her making soap at one time, with lye and drippings of some kind, but I can't remember what it was, but she remembered from the old country how to make it, and she made some here. And then we always had the long bench to put, you know, everybody had a wash bench, what they called a wash bench. And my daughter's got one, but it's an antique. She collects antiques.

    Dunlop: Yes, she's an antiquer.

    Mrs. Dunlop: But that's where they - you know - we used to wash outside if the weather was good, kept that big, long shelf, or whatever it was - bench - out there and the two big pots on them, big scrubbing things.

    Johnson: Did she have a wringer that she could ...

    Mrs. Dunlop: No, we had a scrubbing board and you had to wring it out by your hands.

    Dunlop: Do you want to go back to them old days? (Laughs)

    Johnson: No. Well, I guess a wringer was a great invention for those days, 'cause it's so heavy. If you ever tried to wring something out...

    Dunlop: Well, she likes an old-time wringer, better than the washer we got now.

    Mrs. Dunlop: Well, that's electric he's talking - you're not talking about the electric ones. My aunt had one that you - round...

    Johnson: You did by hand, yes. We have one that - have you seen the Gibbons House on the Museum property?

    Mrs. Dunlop: No.

    Johnson: Well, they've restored the house that belonged to the powder foreman and they have a hang wringer out there, I don't know if he actually had one, but it's in there to show what they were like.

    Mrs. Dunlop: Yeah, I remember my aunt had one too.

    Johnson: I can remember my mother had one too, before they had washing machines.

    Dunlop: Where are you originally from?

    Johnson: Well, I was born in Connecticut, but by this time we were living on Long Island, but she just had the two wash tubs in the kitchen and then she'd put the wringer between them and that way you could wring out your sheets. It was much easier than lifting them up.

    Dunlop: That's nice country up there.

    Johnson: Do you remember a fluting iron?

    Dunlop: A what?

    Johnson: A fluting Iron?

    Dunlop: No.

    Johnson: This is something - I don't think anybody used them, they had them in the nineteenth century and they have one in the Gibbons House. It was - you keep the tubes on the stove, they were pieces of metal, and two rollers and then you put the cloth through the rollers and it would come out as if it had pleats on it. He's got the lamp (some confusion when the dog gets rambunctious - miscellaneous comments while he is calmed down).

    Johnson: Do you remember a mousetrap in the kitchen?

    Dunlop: Yeah, we had a mousetrap - cats was the best mousetrap we had.

    Johnson: What was the mousetrap like, if you had one?

    Dunlop: The only ones I remember is the same ones as today.

    Johnson: With the spring on it.

    Dunlop: Then they had the big muskrat trap that we used to set - oh, we used to have a cage for rats sometimes, it was a cage trap. But that's when I got up older, I mean, I don't remember anything when I was a kid.

    Johnson: Have a coat stand?

    Dunlop: Mam?

    Johnson: Have a coat stand?

    Dunlop: No - yeah, we did too, yeah we had a …

    Johnson: I asked you about the oil lamp. Soapstone griddle?

    Mrs. Dunlop: Yes, she had one of those, she made scones on it.

    Johnson: Did she bring that from Scotland?

    Mrs. Dunlop: I think she did, yes.

    Johnson: Did you have a cherry pitter?

    Dunlop: I don't know.

    Johnson: It's a little - it works with a spring, they one...

    Dunlop: See, I'm a man, I don't know nothin' about them (laughs).

    Johnson: A cabbage slicer? A Green's Almanac? A highchair? A butter mold? I know you had the icebox. Did she have an egg beater?

    Dunlop: Yeah.

    Johnson: A pitcher?

    Dunlop: Yeah.

    Johnson: A carving fork?

    Dunlop: I don't remember a carving fork. Just plain knife, as I remember.

    Mrs. Dunlop: Knife, that's all.

    Johnson: Did you have a table in the kitchen?

    Dunlop: Yeah.

    Johnson: What was it like?

    Dunlop: Well, I tell you it was just a plain table, that's all, no paint on it, you know, just a natural table: wood.

    Johnson: And she probably had a stove lid lifter, to lift the things off?

    Dunlop: Yeah.

    Johnson: Did she have an iron?

    Dunlop: Yeah.

    Johnson: And would she have two irons, one to heat on the stove?

    Dunlop: One to heat on the stove.

    Johnson: A wooden churn?

    Dunlop: Yeah.

    Johnson: Churn her own butter?

    Dunlop: No, no, I don't remember that.

    Johnson: Think that was before the 1900's. Did she have an ironing board?

    Dunlop: Yeah, she had an ironing board.

    Johnson: Was it wood or metal?

    Dunlop: Wood.

    Johnson: Did she have clothespins?

    Dunlop: Yeah.

    Johnson: Were they wood, the way they are today?

    Dunlop: They had the push-in, not the snap kind.

    Johnson: Did she have a spice box?

    Dunlop: I think she did, yeah.

    Johnson: A hutch?

    Dunlop: I don't remember having a hutch.

    Johnson: Did your father have a bowler hat?

    Dunlop: No.

    Johnson: Now, they have both an oil lamp and kerosene lamp here, would your lamps burn kerosene or oil?

    Mrs. Dunlop: Kerosene.

    Dunlop: Oil - I mean kerosene, kerosene, yeah.

    Johnson: Did you have a lunch bucket?

    Dunlop: Yeah.

    Johnson: And ice tongs?

    Dunlop: Yeah.

    Johnson: A straight chair?

    Dunlop: Straight chair - did we have a straight chair out there?

    Mrs. Dunlop: I don't know.

    Dunlop: I'll go by that one, I don't remember that one.

    Johnson: A medicine chest?

    Dunlop: Yeah.

    Johnson: Do you remember any medicines you might have had as a child?

    Dunlop: Just the plain old Iodine and stuff like that.

    Johnson: If you scrape yourself.

    Mrs. Dunlop: Castor Oil.

    Dunlop: Castor Oil, yeah (laughs) what do they want that for?

    Mrs. Dunlop: It was an old standby, I know.

    Johnson: And milk can?

    Dunlop: Yeah.

    Johnson: A lap sewing board? A tea kettle?

    Dunlop: A tea kettle - oh yeah, yeah.

    Johnson: What was it like, was it metal?
  • Household objects; The cellar and flooding on the Brandywine Creek; Identifying people and buildings in photographs; Volunteering at Hagley
    Keywords: "The Workers' World at Hagley" by Glenn Porter; Basins; Beds; Brandywine Creek; Cellars; Chamber pots; Curtains; Dishes; Dominoes; Drawers; Du Pont, Alfred I. (Alfred Irenee), 1864-1935; Flooding; Games; Hagley Museum and Library; Ice skates; Knitting; Playing cards; Poker; Quilts; Rocking chairs; Rollerskates; Shaving; Shaving mugs; Stereopticons; Tea; Wood boxes
    Transcript: Dunlop: I don't remember, I know we drank a lot of tea in my life. What was the name of that tea we always...

    Mrs. Dunlop: Orange pecoe tea.

    Dunlop: Orange pecoe tea.

    Johnson: And you just bought that in the grocery store?

    Mrs. Dunlop: Yeah, loose.

    Johnson: How about dishes - what the dishes were like?

    Dunlop: You'd have to have dishes, you couldn't eat.

    Johnson: Did they have a rocking chair?

    Dunlop: Yeah.

    Johnson: And you said they had a wood box outside the house?

    Dunlop: Yeah.

    Johnson: Did you have a checker board when you were little – play checkers?

    Dunlop: No.

    Johnson: Did you play any card games?

    Dunlop: Yeah.

    Johnson: What were they like?

    Dunlop: Poker.

    Johnson: Oh, anything else. (laughter) Did you play with your dad, or just your friends?

    Dunlop: No, I used to play with the guys.

    Mrs. Dunlop: His father was a great domino player.

    Dunlop: Yeah, we had dominoes.

    Johnson: And frying pan - you had one of those?

    Dunlop: Yeah.

    Johnson: An ice pick?

    Dunlop: Yeah.

    Johnson: A rolling pin?

    Dunlop: Yeah.

    Johnson: A biscuit cutter?

    Dunlop - No, I don't remember a biscuit cutter.

    Johnson: When she made the scones, would she just put them out ...

    Dunlop: Did we have a biscuit cutter?

    Mrs. Dunlop: Oh yes.

    Dunlop: I think you better answer these question here, I don't know nothing' about this kitchen.

    Johnson: How about a stereopticon viewer?

    Mrs. Dunlop: Yeah, we used to have one of those, yes. The kids used to look through that. Everybody had one of those - my grandmother...

    Johnson: Did you have a spittoon?

    Dunlop: No, we never had a - I know that.

    Johnson: An autograph album?

    Dunlop: No.

    Johnson: A sampler? You said your mother didn't sew, so I didn't know if she would have had that.

    Mrs. Dunlop: She knit, argyle socks, sweaters.

    Johnson: Did she knit your socks in the wintertime?

    Dunlop: Yeah, darned them too.

    Mrs. Dunlop: And she knit our boys’ socks, too.

    Johnson: And would she knit sweaters too?

    Mrs. Dunlop: U-huh.

    Johnson: Did she do anything with Shetland wool, we know that...

    Mrs. Dunlop – No, not that I know of.

    Johnson: Well we did the curtains - and you said you had ice skates as a child?

    Dunlop: Oh yes.

    Johnson: Well, they were just the clip-on kind - you know, no shoes?

    Dunlop: Strapped on, yeah.

    Johnson: How about rollerskates?

    DunlopL I had them in town, but not - I had them before I moved out to the creek. I had them when I was six years old, rollerskates.

    Johnson: But you need a sidewalk for that don't you?

    Dunlop: Huh?

    Johnson: You couldn't have used them without sidewalks?

    Dunlop: No, no, you need sidewalks for that, yeah.

    Johnson: Did your mother have a brass bed?

    Dunlop: Brass bed? Yeah, we had a brass bed, didn't we?

    Mrs. Dunlop: Yes.

    Johnson: And a quilt?

    Dunlop: Yeah.

    Johnson: Did she make - no, she wouldn't have made the quilt. Chest of drawers?

    Mrs. Dunlop: Oh yeah.

    Johnson: Did you have a wash basin in the bedroom?

    Dunlop: Yeah.

    Johnson: A chamber pot?

    Mrs. Dunlop: Yep.

    Johnson: And a towel stand?

    Mrs. Dunlop: Yes.

    Johnson: Button hooks? For the button shoes.

    Dunlop: No, I never saw none.

    Mrs. Dunlop: I have one belonged to my mother, but I never remember her having one.

    Johnson: Did she have a pin cushion?

    Mrs. Dunlop: Oh yes.

    Johnson: I asked you about a settee and the sideboard: did your house have a cellar?

    Mrs. Dunlop: Yes.

    Johnson: It did - and would that get flooded, that cellar, when the Brandywine overflowed?

    Mrs. Dunlop: Your father, your mother and father had a cellar there at 190 Breck's Lane.

    Dunlop: Yeah, we had a cellar.

    Mrs. Dunlop: It was a dirt cellar. And he had what he called a root cellar, where he kept beets and onions and things like that that he grew.

    Johnson: How would he manage it when they had a flood there and the cellar got wet?

    Dunlop: Well, we never got much water - never got no water in that one.

    Mrs. Dunlop: We weren’ t that close to the creek.

    Dunlop: See, we were living on Breck's Lane all the way up to the top.

    Mrs. Dunlop: Halfway up Breck's Lane.

    Johnson: Yes, it was just the two houses down at the bottom that had to keep ...

    Dunlop: Yeah, that's right, on Main Street the ones that got it. That on like, if you go down Breck's Lane, and the ones on the Brandywine side, not on this side - they never got no water, never got no water.

    Johnson: Well, I think we've pretty well covered this. Did you have a hammock on your porch?

    Dunlop: No.

    Johnson: Do you remember sitting around on the porch at night?

    Dunlop: We sat on the rocking chair, or a chair just on the porch, that’ s it.

    Johnson: Oh, shaving mirror, do you remember your father shaving?

    Dunlop: Yeah, but I don't think he used a straight razor, if he did, I don't remember.

    Mrs. Dunlop: I think he had to.

    Dunlop: I guess he used a straight razor, I don't remember that.

    Mrs. Dunlop: He had a shaving cup with, you know, the soap in it, the brush that you lather...

    Johnson: Did he have a mirror in the kitchen?

    Mrs. Dunlop: Yeah, over the sink.

    Johnson – Yes, that's what - must have had it, yes. And you said he had shaving mug and soap. And you told me about the coffee. And you wouldn't have had an organ in the house or a cradle, cause you were too old for the baby. Well, I think we covered it.

    Dunlop: Did we. I hope I done you some good. I don't think so.

    Johnson: I think you told me a lot - that's what they wanted to know.

    Dunlop: I'm glad to help you out.

    Johnson: I certainly do thank you. It's alright, then, if I take these pictures and make copies - and I'll bring them back to you.

    Dunlop: Yeah, yeah, that's fine.

    Johnson: And then if they think of any more questions, would you be willing to tell them some more?

    Dunlop: You gonna leave this here?

    Johnson: That's for you to keep, yes.

    Dunlop: Then I'll look it over and maybe I can have something ... I know that guy as soon as I looked at him: it's Lammot du Pont.

    Johnson: Oh, which - oh, him. Do you know: there's a picture of Alfred I.'s orchestra in here, do you remember ever hearing this orchestra and would you know anybody on there?

    Dunlop: I'd have to look at it, but I remember when: I can't think of the guy's name - they caught him breaking that glass and go in to shoot Alfred I.

    Mrs. Dunlop: Climb over that wall.

    Dunlop: On that big wall, yeah, I can't think of his name. Well, there was something wrong with his head. I remember that.

    Johnson: Is this a picture of Alfred I. there, meeting the men, or is that somebody else?

    Dunlop: I can't see - I'll go over this book and I can tell you ... Well see - there's the old Hagley house, right there, and it's the Hagley house there and there's Hodgson's Woolen Mill right there.

    Johnson: I brought this release for you to sign too - well it says you give the Eleutherian Mills permission to use anything you said if we ever print another book like this and they quoted you in there, that you would say it was alright to do that.

    Dunlop: Yeah, I'll sign that, ain't nothin' to worry about.(long pause) How's that?

    Johnson: That's fine, thank you.

    Dunlop: I didn't put the date on there, you can do that.

    Johnson: No, I can put that - I'm supposed to put my name too.

    Mrs. Dunlop: Do you work for Hagley Museum?

    Johnson: No, I'm just a volunteer there.

    Mrs. Dunlop: Oh, are you?

    Johnson: Yes.

    Dunlop: You live in Wilmington now?

    Johnson: Yes.

    Dunlop: Where at?

    Johnson: I live in Wycliff, do you know where that is? It's not very far from here, it's across the Philadelphia Pike and it's between the Philadelphia Pike and I-95 - it's just a small development, it goes around in a circle there. They have something like two hundred volunteers at Hagley Museum now. People just ...

    Dunlop: Two hundred volunteers? Good Lord! That's a lot of them, isn't it?

    Johnson: Well, it's an interesting place to learn something, because you learn some of the history that way and people seem to enjoy going.

    Dunlop: Yeah, that's a lot of people. My daughter used to do a lot for ...

    Mrs. Dunlop: Flower Market.

    Dunlop: Yeah, the Flower Market. She was boss a couple of times - she give it up, give it up.

    Johnson: Well, I guess that's a lot of work, too, you couldn't do it year after year.

    Dunlop: Well, you do a lot of work and everything, and then you got the people working for them and then a piece come in the paper and your name ain't there or nothin’ , the big chief gets it - it's a lot of work.

    Mrs. Dunlop: I think she's going to work this time, though, because they've asked her to.

    Dunlop: Is she going to work this year?

    Mrs. Dunlop: U-huh, so many hours.

    Johnson: One thing about volunteer work though, you meet a lot of people that way and you get to know people and you have a good time in that. Well, thank you very much again, for your time and I enjoyed talking to you so much.

    Dunlop: Take it easy and nice talking to you and I hope I can help you - I'll look through that book.

    Johnson: You've answered a lot of questions that I had after talking to other people - you've cleared up...

    Dunlop: You give me a buzz and then when you're ready ...

    Johnson: And I'll bring your pictures back after they're copied. Thank you very much - bye = take care of yourself, too.

    Dunlop: I'll see you

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