Interview with Thomas Dunlop, 1985 February 22 [audio]
- Description of family home, recap of earlier interviews; Drying walnuts on the second floor of the family home; Growing flowers and vegetables; Raising rabbits, ducks, and capons; Mother's cooking; Celebrating Hogmanay instead of ChristmasKeywords: Capons; Celebrations; Cellars; Christmas; Coal; Cooking; Du Pont, Alfred I. (Alfred Irenee), 1864-1935; Hogmanay; Homes; Root cellarsTranscript: Bennett: Well, Mr. Dunlop, it's real nice to be with you today and I would like you, if you don’ t mind, to spell your name for me so that when it gets typed, that the spelling is correct.
Dunlop: It’ s Thomas, no middle name, and Dunlop, Dunlop.
Bennett: Okay, and you live at 3 Beverly Place?
Dunlop: Apartment 1.
Bennett: Okay. This is a recap of the questions that you have been asked before and we'll just take them one by one and if you would tell me what you remember of certain things - the first question is the attic, did you have an attic in your house?
Dunlop: We had an attic in our house and the only thing we kept up there was - well it was a big attic - the only thing we kept up there was a boy's gymnasium or stuff like that, we never used it. But it was big enough, it was two rooms.
Bennett: Two rooms.
Woman: It was more than that.
Dunlop: Was it more than that?
Woman: It was three rooms and a big hallway, we could have used it, but we only used the downstairs, because it had eight rooms. We had three bedrooms downstairs so we fixed up the one room upstairs for the boys to play darts...
Dunlop: Play darts.
Bennett: Play room.
Dunlop: It was more of a play room up there.
Woman: And then anybody that didn't want anything brought it to us to put up in our attic. We had a whole room of all kind of furniture. Some of it, today, would be worth a lot of money, but we got rid of it when we moved from there.
Bennett: Actually, I think your house was bigger than the average house.
Dunlop: It was a double house. It had to be when it was whatyoucall em's stable, that was a big place - Alfred I's stable.
Bennett: You were lucky, I think, to have that much room.
Dunlop: We were, yeah.
Bennett: Was the upstairs - they were then, actually finished as rooms?
Woman: They were finished with (can't understand next few words). The boys used to dry walnuts up there, you know, our boys did.
Bennett: They dried walnuts?
Woman: Black walnuts.
Dunlop: Black walnuts, there used to be plenty of walnuts.
Woman: They gathered off the trees all around there and would dry them up there.
Dunlop: Up the hill - bushel after bushel.
Bennett: Would you describe how it was done - how did they dry them?
Woman: They would peel them and then they would just put them out on the floor on papers - newspapers.
Dunlop: We had to dry them inside because the squirrels would steal them outside.
Woman: The squirrels would take them. At first they used to put them on the roof of the garage, you know, we had a big garage out there and they put them on the roof, but the squirrels took them all, so then we had to bring them - they started drying them up in the attic on the floor, on newspapers.
Dunlop: She's been out there in the Brandywine since 1924.
Woman: 1924, yeah.
Bennett: So you remember as much as Mr....
Woman: I remember a lot because I was with his parents a while, you know, we lived alongside of each other.
Dunlop: We moved away from there in 1951.
Woman: And our first son was born out there.
Bennett: I see. Now let's go to the cellar. Did you have a cellar in the house?
Dunlop: No, the only thing we had down there was a heater and the spring, we had a spring.
Bennett: That ran through the property?
Dunlop: No, come right on up - see what they done, when Mrs. Laird fixed that house up for me when I went in there in 1934, she dug a cellar underneath there for me. She dug a cellar and instead of messing around, they had a spring - natural spring come up out of there. And we used to have it - you could put anything in there to cool, it was cold.
Bennett: I have spoken with a Mr. Philip Dougherty, and his uncle lived on Breck's Lane and he said that - he talked about the spring, and he said you could keep things - didn't it smell damp and musty?
Dunlop: No, no.
Woman: There was a French drain in there. We had a cement cellar, Mrs. Laird put a cement cellar - that's the only thing, that's the only one - the other house she didn't bother, but they dug underneath there and all, shored it up and put a cellar. Now the cellar wasn't as big as this, it was - enough to hold five ton of coal and enough - a heater, and the spring was right at the bottom of the steps.
Woman: Bottom of the steps, yeah.
Bennett: So, size-wise, you would say it was about how big?
Dunlop: Oh, I'd say it was, oh roughly, eight by ten, roughly.
Bennett: I'm just surprised that it didn't have a damp odor, but I understand that it didn't.
Woman: No, I guess with the heater, it kept it dried out.
Dunlop: No, it didn't.
Woman: But see, his mother and father lived up above, they had the basement, the cellar, but it was, you know, it wasn't concrete, it was earth. It was an earth cellar.
Woman: Unfinished, and he had the root cellar, his father.
Bennett: He had a root cellar?
Dunlop: Yeah, he had a root cellar.
Bennett: Would you describe it to me, as you remember?
Dunlop: Well, the root cellar was just the regular place where he put plants. He was great for iris, yeah he was great for iris.
Woman: And dahlias he raised.
Dunlop: And dahlias, well that's the same - iris and dahlias.
Woman: No, un-huh, prize dahlias he raised.
Dunlop: Oh, yeah, he had dahlias.
Woman: But he raised a lot of vegetables and he would keep the carrots and parsnips, onions and things like that down there.
Dunlop: And everything for the wintertime.
Bennett: Can you remember how deep the root cellar was?
Dunlop: No, I couldn't say that. Well, if you just went through them big doors that you throw back and you'd go down - I'd say it was only, well maybe from the ground along, I'd say eight feet high. You didn't have to duck going down there, but he had dirt in there that he put in there that he put the stuff in, you know, regular top soil.
Bennett: And that’ s how he kept the things. Now, how about canning, I thought maybe...
Dunlop: Another thing, while I think of it, Daddy used to use - Daddy used to raise rabbits for to sell, you know, the big rabbits and Daddy used to raise ducks for hunters.
Bennett: Now where was this, Mr. Dunlop, right there?
Dunlop: Right up from where we used to live.
Woman: 190 Breck's Lane.
Dunlop: 190 Breck's Lane.
Bennett: Alright, I'd like to hear about that, what you remember, how big of a property was it, and how did he keep these rabbits and these ducks?
Dunlop: Well, he had regular, regular hutches...
Woman: Hutches for the rabbits.
Bennett: About how many hutches?
Dunlop: Oh, I don't know, I’ d say he had about five hutches. He used them big rabbits that they sell in the market, big rabbits.
Woman: I don't know whether he sold any of them for ...
Dunlop: And the wild ducks, we used to set them in the fall and have a couple of decoys and have a spring net there and when they fed down with the other ones, we'd throw the spring on them and clip their wings, and then they'd stay around there until they outgrowed them: they were Mallards, and he used to sell them for the decoys. Of course that's against the law: them days it was a different story.
Woman: There was a big run behind the old place back there.
Dunlop: Water run there and it was dammed up and they had a nice place to swim.
Woman: And his mother used to take our first son down there and sit by hours watch the little ducks, you know, and that's the first word he said was "duck". Carried our son all over the farm.
Dunlop: My mother was raised on a farm, them duck eggs, they'd eat them, but they were too strong for me.
Woman: His father raised capon chickens too.
Dunlop: Yeah, that's right, capons, sold them in the market.
Woman: For du Ponts and doctors.
Bennett: Did he work for the DuPont powder yards as well, your father?
Dunlop: He worked for DuPonts, I don't know what year, him and a man named Harney, but he got out of there because they were making cyanide and he never done anything about it, but I think he got cyanide poison because he died of cancer. And the DuPonts, them days, the stuff they made was all black and then when they got done with it, it was pure white, you know what cyanide is – deadly poison. I guess he worked there for a couple years, I don't know. I worked there myself when I was a kid. I should never have left there I guess - washing dishes and stuff like that, I'd been better off, I guess.
Woman: Experimental, you know, with a chemist he worked.
Bennett: Now, do you remember at your mother's house, the canning, did she do canning there?
Dunlop: No, my mother never done no canning, she come from Scotland, she never bothered, she never done any canning.
Woman: No she never did any. Well, she would make jellies and things like that - strawberry. She was great for making orange marmalade.
Bennett: Well, that would be - okay, would she do this just for her own family?
Dunlop: Then she made what they called Scottish shortbread, and she used to sell that to all the du Ponts, she had a special - she's the only one can make it now. Certain tricks to the way that she made it, yeah.
Woman: Every Christmas made about twenty-two cakes of it.
Dunlop: That was to celebrate Hogmanay - that's New Year's in Scottish - Hogmanay is New Year's.
Bennett: Hogmanay is New Year's, and this was a tradition with you, the...
Dunlop: We never celebrated Christmas, always New Year's. I never had no toys when I was a kid, because we never celebrated it.
Bennett: A lot of them didn't.
Woman: They didn't celebrate Christmas until I married him.
- Storage sheds and outbuildings; Raising chickens; The neighborhood on Breck's Lane; Chores; Scottish foodKeywords: Breck's Lane; Chickens; Chores; Henry Clay (Del.: Village); Sheds; Storage; StoviesTranscript: Bennett: How about: did you have, or did your father and mother have like separate sheds - you must have, he must have had them because...
Dunlop: Oh yeah, we had chicken sheds - we raised chickens too.
Bennett: Okay, you had the sheds as well as your father?
Dunlop: Yeah, we had sheds.
Bennett: What else did he...
Dunlop: Well, I didn't have no sheds, we just...
Woman: We never raised anything like that.
Dunlop: We had the garage and that's all - two garages, well a shed out back, but it used to be a garage, and then Mrs. Laird built a new one for us. So I used the shed for, you know, down there for stuff like that.
Bennett: For just odds and ends?
Woman: Odds and ends, yeah. Lawn mower.
Dunlop: We had a garden there, big place.
Bennett: Tools and so forth you would ...
Bennett: Did you have, or did your father have any shed that might be heated?
Dunlop: No, no, no - no heat. And then another thing he done, he used to - he had incubators down that cellar I talked about, in the what-you-call-em cellar - the root cellar.
Bennett: He had an incubator?
Dunlop: He had three of them - he raised chickens, incubated them.
Bennett: Would you describe what you remember?
Dunlop: Well, I knew the temperature, I forget what the temperature used to be, we used to have to watch it all night long, you know, check it, see he had three of them.
Bennett: How did he keep the heat in there - how did he keep it warm?
Dunlop: Oh, it's a regular oil heater in there - in the incubators and then your temperature...
Woman: I remember his mother having to to turn the eggs in the incubator, so many times, every so often.
Dunlop: Yeah, had to turn every so often.
Bennett: And this took place in the root cellar?
Dunlop: Yeah, we had one incubator took care of, I think, a hundred eggs, then he had a big one take care of two hundred eggs, and he had one of fifty eggs. See, in the root cellar, after they got big enough, they could scratch down there and everything, and it was something - it was everything down there.
Bennett: Was this under the main part of the house?
Dunlop: Yeah, well you come out the back kitchen door, and you turn right and there was the big things that you threw back and forth.
Woman: That's the only way you could get...
Bennett: A folded door?
Woman: That's the only way you could get in, because you couldn't go there from the inside of the house like you do today, you had to go outside.
Bennett: To go down and under?
Dunlop: When you come down Breck's Lane, off the Kennett Pike, you come down Breck's Lane, and on the left side you'll see a house, Montgomery's - did you ever notice it? The first house you pass used to Barne's, that used to be the chauffeur - gardener for Raskob. And the next house, there's one on the left, Alfred I. - still owns it because that boy only pays a dollar a year, that's all he gets. Well, right across from that is another house on the right, the next house is where my father lived.
Woman: His brothers were born, his sisters were born there.
Dunlop: What-you-call-em - what's her name?
Woman: Rosa Laird owns that house, well that's where we used to live. My father and us, that's before we ... Before we went into the yellow house.
Bennett: Well, I'd like to hear more about that. How big of the property, since he had chickens and ducks, how big ...
Dunlop: Oh, it was a big place. It's a big place. I just can't off hand say, but I'd say it's pretty big, I'd say it's a half acre, half acre.
Woman: But through time, they took part of it. When I first went out there, it was all open, all around, a lot of space between that house and the next house, but they took part of that and they built, Mrs. Laird built a __________ house on it. It was - houseman lived in it: and he worked for du Ponts and that was where I first went to live with him, with his mother and father, my mother was dead, and I went to live with his father and mother and I was around then a lot and I knew a lot, you know, about them. But then they built - that was a big place, a real big place.
Bennett: Well, it must have been.
Dunlop: Yeah, it was a real big place.
Woman: It went all the way back to the run where the little ducks were.
Dunlop: And then they had a great big field nobody used where Mrs. Laird used to let her work horses in there, and that wasn't fenced in - chickens went over there, it was free - it wasn't like it is today, it wasn't fenced in, nobody had any trouble, chickens went and...
Woman: There was a fence in the front of the - in the front part of the house, but there was nothing in the back, it was just fence in the front, and then it went all the way back to the water.
Dunlop: You taping her too?
Bennett: Well, that's why I just removed that, because you are, you know, and I'd like to get what you're saying. I hope that it carried over there, I think that it will. How about wood storage, did you store wood or was it all coal?
Dunlop: No, I had to chop wood - this is when I was a boy, now.
Bennett: That's what I want to hear - good.
Dunlop: When I was a boy, I had to chop wood every day, and Saturday I used to have to chop enough for Sunday because I wasn't allowed - we were never allowed to chop wood on Sunday.
Bennett: Work on Sunday.
Dunlop: That’ s right. And then I had the chicken coops to clean and all that stuff - the rabbit hutches and all.
Bennett: They kept you busy.
Dunlop: Oh, I was. We never - like the kids today, they went home and stayed and practiced basketball - no, wasn't in them days.
Bennett: Was the - where did you store the wood?
Dunlop: Well, just in the - we had one of the sheds there, kind of a wood shed.
Bennett: A separate shed?
Dunlop: Well, it was a small shed, yeah. We had a big wood stove, and we had coal too.
Bennett: And the coal was stored underneath the basement in the other house, in the yellow house?
Dunlop: That's right.
Bennett: Now, this next question is Irish stew, but I don't know that you had Irish stew - did you eat Irish stew?
Dunlop: Have what?
Bennett: Irish stew.
Bennett: Okay, but it's here, so.
Woman: His mother made mostly Scotch dishes.
Bennett: I would imagine.
Woman: Like pottie heed - that's a sort of a meat that you grind up and make - that you cut down after it's cold, make it with beef.
Bennett: Would you say the name again?
Woman: Potty heed.
Bennett: H-E-A ...
Woman: I guess that's how you spell it.
Dunlop: Potty - like pot.
Woman: Potty heed.
Dunlop: Sounds like pot head - potty heed - heed means head.
Woman: And stovies was another thing she made which was onions, turnips and potatoes cooked together.
Bennett: That's a good combination.
Woman: Yes, yes.
Bennett: Do you remember where your mother stored her flour? And the sugar?
Woman: She had a big wooden closet run from the floor to the ceiling, and that was all kept in there, in the kitchen. She had a huge kitchen.
Dunlop: Had a big kitchen.
Woman: Real huge kitchen.
Bennett: How did she buy it - in the large bulk, or did she buy...
Woman: I don't really remember how she bought it.
Bennett: In like a big bag of flour, a big...
Woman: Most people did in those days, they didn't buy five pounds or anything like that, they bought a big bag, as far as I know.
Bennett: Then would it be put in a can, or was it kept in the...
Woman: It was put in a can, and she had this - it was a big closet, as I said, it ran from the floor to the ceiling, and that's where she kept all her staples.
Bennett: They were all there together?
Woman: Right, yeah.
Bennett: How about things like pickles, sauerkraut, oatmeal?
Woman: No - well, she used oatmeal a lot, but I don't think she was too great for pickles or sauerkraut or anything like that.
Bennett: Would the oatmeal be stored in that same cabinet?
Woman: Yeah, yeah, her sugars and salt and flour and everything she baked with, yeah, yeah.
Bennett: How was the oatmeal packaged: was it in a …
Woman: I don’ t really remember, no.
- Toys and games; Music and songsKeywords: Bicycles; Card games; Euchre; Fireworks; Games; Hoops; Hunt the hare; Marbles; Poker; Tops; Toys; WagonsTranscript: Bennett: Now I'm going to ask you about some games, some children's games - I don't think you played Jacks - I'm sure.
Dunlop: No (laughs).
Bennett: Did you ever roll a hoop - did you have a hoop?
Dunlop: Yeah, I had a hoop.
Bennett: Did you play Checkers?
Dunlop: No, I never fooled with checkers. I played Hunt the Hare, I think it's down there.
Bennett: I don't: it's now here yet, well you'll tell me about it. How about, did you have a top, one of those tops that spinning top?
Dunlop: Yeah, yeah, had a spinning top.
Bennett: How about a wagon, did you own a wagon?
Dunlop: No, the only wagon I had would be the one I made. When I was: you're talking about me as a boy?
Dunlop: That's all. I made: and after I got married with my children, I made the first pushmobile.
Dunlop: Yeah, I did for my children. And I had - I put a steering wheel on it, and I put a sprocket and a chain and it steered and it had a brake on it and used to come down Barley Mill Lane: flying.
Bennett: Yeah, I imagine you did!
Dunlop: Well, it was a good hill then.
Woman: We used to sled on Breck’ s Lane.
Dunlop: See, I've lived two or three places - I lived on Church Street next to the Sisters, that's where St. Joseph's is, and I lived on Barley Mill Lane, when I worked for Hallock's, I worked for Hallock's before here and out at the farm, and I lived on Breck's Lane.
Bennett: Did you play cards - any card games?
Dunlop: Oh yeah, we used to play - well Poker was a great thing out there.
Bennett: At what age would you play poker?
Dunlop: Oh, no, I was older...
Bennett: Older when you did that?
Dunlop: Yeah, I wasn't a kid, I was married then. We used to play euchre a lot, well that was the most game - I never went for pinochle or nothing like that, and I wasn't bright enough for checkers then.
Bennett: Did you have a scooter?
Dunlop: Scooters - no.
Bennett: A bicycle?
Dunlop: Oh, yeah, a bicycle. Hand-me-down, I used to fix them up.
Bennett: Can you describe it - was it one of those with the bigger wheels?
Dunlop: No, it was a regular bicycle.
Bennett: Did you play tag?
Dunlop: Well, yeah, we played tag, yeah, when I was a boy.
Bennett: How about Run Sheepie Run?
Dunlop: I don't know about that one. Well, that's the same as...
Woman: Hunt the Hare, I guess.
Dunlop: That's Hunt the Hare, I guess. I think that's in the: I seen that somewhere. What we used to do - we used to pick so many teams - two teams - and the guys would, well say there was eight on each side and we were allowed so many minutes to get off, and that was it. We would head to the City and down to Monkey Cage Zoo and never would see us no more. That’ s what we used to call Hunt the Hare.
Bennett: Hunt the Hare, okay. Did you play marbles?
Bennett: Did you have favorite ones that you...
Dunlop: Oh, I had all kind - agates, this one - white one, green one, and all that crap.
Bennett -The favorite ones? Could you describe how you played marbles, Mr. Dunlop?
Dunlop: Well, there was two or three different games. I wasn't too good at it. Some people were really good, but I wasn't too good at it. Used to play King in the Ring, and that used to be one name. Used to put a certain - oh you make a ring about that big.
Bennett: About how big would you say that is?
Dunlop: Oh, I'd say about - oh about eight inches, and every time you missed the King, you put one in, when you hit the King out, you got all the marbles. They were all glass, now, they wasn't the clay marbles - that's what they called King in the Ring then. The clay marbles, you know, made a circle, now I don't know how big that was, but you used to Cunny thumb, some of them used – Cunny thumb was like that, and that was that way.
Bennett: Now you called that - what did you say the word was - Honeycomb?
Dunlop: No, Cunny thumb, some people said Tunny thumb, and others said different.
Bennett: Thumb - oh okay, Cunny thumb, okay. Do you remember fireworks?
Dunlop: Oh yeah.
Bennett: Where did you see those?
Dunlop: Up Irenee du Pont's, we used to go up there all the time.
Woman: We used to take the children to see them every Fourth of July.
Dunlop: That's more when I was married and took the children.
Bennett: As a child, growing up...
Dunlop: I don't remember no fireworks.
Bennett: They didn't have any fireworks then?
Dunlop: The only fireworks I remember was when Carney's Point blew up.
Bennett: That was another kind of fireworks.
Dunlop: Yeah, lit the whole sky, everybody was out playing and thought that was it, everything was bright as day.
Bennett: Imagine - gosh, that's hard to believe, isn't it?
Dunlop: That's the truth.
Bennett: Oh, I don't doubt it. Bocce, did you ever play bocce?
Dunlop: Bocce? (Laughs)
Woman: That's Italian.
Dunlop: No that's Italian game. They used to play that up Squirrel Run a lot.
Bennett: You didn't play it?
Dunlop: No I didn't play that.
Bennett: Let's talk about some songs. Do you remember songs that were popular in those days - any - did you have any particular favorite?
Bennett: No, how about hymns, were there any favorite hymns?
Dunlop: No - songs, well the songs I don't remember much when I was a child, but after I got married, I knew a lot of songs.
Bennett: Did you have any traditional songs, Scottish songs in the family?
Dunlop: Oh yeah, they had all of Harry Lauder's.
Bennett: You do?
Dunlop: I did have, but I never got them back.
Woman: Lent them to them.
Dunlop: I lent them out to my cousin, and he passed away and I don't know what they done with them. Dad had every one that Harry Lauder had.
Bennett: Did you play them at a certain time - like a tradition, or just play them when you wanted to hear them?
Dunlop: Just play them - I do that right now, at Christmastime, I have a lot of the records in there - hymns and stuff like that.
Bennett: Did you play any musical instrument?
Bennett: Do you remember a banjo?
Dunlop: I remember banjos.
Bennett: Being played there along Breck's Lane around your home?
Dunlop: No, no.
Bennett: How about a harmonica, do you remember anybody that played the harmonica?
Dunlop: Oh, well, everybody had a harmonica and tried to play it when I was a boy.
Bennett: Did you have one, too?
Dunlop: Oh, yeah, but I couldn't play it very good (laughs).
Bennett: How about a violin, did you know anybody that played a violin, a fiddle?
Dunlop: Yes, Fiddler Jones.
Bennett: Okay. (laughs) Got him in there.
Dunlop: That's George Jones's brother and that Reverend's wife...
Bennett: Yes, Mrs. Hayward.
Dunlop: Yes, that's correct.
Bennett: Did you have a tin whistle?
Dunlop: Yes, a bazooka?
Dunlop: That's the thing with a ...
Bennett: What's an autoharp?
Dunlop: I don't know that, but we used to have a bazooka, that's the thing that had a cap on it with a thing and you (makes sound like a bazooka)...
Bennett: Yes, I know what you mean, yes.
Dunlop: That's the only thing I can remember.
Bennett: Did you know anybody that played, like the flute? Piano or organ?
Bennett: How about a guitar?
- Mother's darning socks; Mother's baking; Having a paper route; The family garden; Raising chickens, ducks, and rabbitsKeywords: Baking; Bread; Capons; Cornish chickens; Dahlias; Darning socks; Leghorn chickens; Newspapers; Scones; Wyandott chickensTranscript: Bennett: It wasn't a popular - now I know - do you remember that your mother might have been doing knitting or handwork, knitting or crocheting, did she?
Dunlop: The only thing that I remember Mother doing was darning socks, that's it, she never...
Bennett: She didn't do needlework, un-huh. Did she bake - do a lot of making? You mentioned that...
Dunlop: Not too much - Mother, the only thing that...
Woman: She made bread, she made bread.
Dunlop: She made bread. Mother never done anything but darning socks, she never was...
Woman: She knit a lot of socks. She knitted the socks as well as darn them. I think our son's still got one pair of them.
Bennett: Imagine! Did she make sweaters as well, or just socks?
Woman: Just socks, just socks, all kinds.
Bennett: When she baked bread –
Woman: She baked bread and she baked the Scotch stuff.
Dunlop: Scotch scones.
Woman: Scones, yeah.
Bennett: How often did she bake the bread, was it a certain day of the week?
Woman: No, no, just when she felt like baking something, she would bake some, but not - they didn't depend on the baking. My mother did, bake seven or eight loaves of bread every week for our family, but my mother was English.
Bennett: Now, then your mother, you said she baked for Christmas for the Lairds, was that for...
Dunlop: New Year's, yeah.
Bennett: For New Year's, yes.
Bennett: And she would - this was a tradition - they would buy it from your mother?
Dunlop: Oh yeah, she had a regular business, good business.
Bennett: So she sold it to more than just the Lairds?
Dunlop: Yeah, du Ponts, she done alright.
Bennett: Sounds like, Hogmanay must have been very, very good.
Dunlop: It is very good.
Woman: It's very rich, it's just nothing but butter and sugar and flour.
Dunlop: That's all.
Woman: And you have to use butter.
Dunlop: Good butter.
Woman: You won't get the same taste to it.
Bennett: Did she have a sewing machine?
Woman: No, Grandmom never sewed, no.
Bennett: So then she didn't do any band sewing either? Do you remember hair work and hair jewelry?
Woman: No. I do, but it wasn't with them. A friend, well, neighbor of ours, Old Granny we used to call her, she had some of that. They lived on Barley Mill Road when we lived there. But his mother never had anything like that.
Bennett: Do you remember seeing that lady ever do any of this?
Woman: No I don't, no, I didn't see her do it, no. She used to use it: she had red hair, and she had some things made of that.
Bennett: How about the newspapers and magazines, the local ones, did you...
Dunlop: I served papers when I was a boy.
Bennett: You served papers - okay. Would you like to tell about it?
Dunlop: The Evening Journal and the Every Evening.
Bennett: Did you have a lot of customers?
Dunlop: Well, I had pretty long. I had about a three-mile run.
Bennett: Every day?
Dunlop: Every night.
Bennett: You didn't have much time to yourself, did you?
Dunlop: Nope. Had all up Breck's Lane clean up to Greenville, down from Greenville I come down to Church Street and down Barley Mill Road and up Long Row and then I had Walker's Banks. Be six o'clock at night when I'd get done. We never had toys when I was kids, it was all work.
Bennett: Just work. Did you deliver magazines as well?
Dunlop: No, just papers.
Bennett: Just papers. Was there a Sunday paper, a separate Sunday one?
Dunlop: Yeah, Sunday I think was not when I was a kid, I don't remember, but I know there was the Star, but I don't...
Bennett: You didn't deliver that?
Dunlop: No, I don't remember that.
Bennett: Do you remember any weekly papers?
Dunlop: No, this was the dailies.
Bennett: How much did you get for yourself from this?
Dunlop: Oh my, it wasn't too much. I could say now, but it wasn’ t too much. I'll tell what it was, though, we got three dollars. If we made three made three dollars, you made three dollars. And the paper people was named Lundy, Mrs. Lundy, her and her son run the business. And they lived right across from where the general store was, Dormer's store and post office.
Bennett: Did you have any books at home?
Dunlop: The only book when I was a kid that I remember is "How Dexter Paid His Way".
Woman: The Bible, the Bible, his mother was very religious woman.
Bennett: You didn't have a library as such?
Dunlop: No, no.
Bennett: Was anybody in your family interested in politics and the elections and that type of thing?
Bennett: Now we're to the gardens which we sort of did describe a little bit of - and you did say that you had a separate shed for tools. Did you have a fence around the garden?
Dunlop: Yeah, yeah, that was a big garden. We had potatoes, tomatoes, rhubarb - what else did we have in there? Had everything.
Woman: Carrots, onions, beets.
Dunlop: I remember when I was a kid, used to have to take the potato bugs off in a can with coal oil in it. We had a nice garden.
Bennett: About how big would you say it was, Mr. Dunlop?
Dunlop: Well, I don't know how big it was, pretty good size. It run right down from that house to the yellow house along Breck's Lane on the fences - there was a fence there, and I guess it was - it's pretty hard to describe. I'd say it was...
Woman: Big as this room probably, or bigger.
Dunlop: I guess it was three times wider than this room.
Bennett: Okay, so this room is what?
Dunlop: About twelve by something.
Bennett: Okay, so it would be thirty-six by something.
Dunlop: Yeah, big. We had enough to keep us the summer and winter anyhow. Cause we'd keep planting it. I know the potatoes we used to raise - used to raise Early Rose and Irish Cobbler. Early Rose was the first and then we went to work the Irish Cobbler section.
Bennett: I read something about the potatoes that were harvested at the Fourth of July. Is that the Early Rose?
Dunlop: Yeah, that's the Early Rose.
Bennett: Now, did you have flowers in this same garden?
Dunlop: Oh, we had flowers all over the place.
Bennett: Mostly in the front or...
Dunlop: In the front, in the front - over from the, well we had a patch there for flowers only. We had everything, didn't we?
Woman: Yeah, as I say, he raised prize-winning dahlias.
Bennett: I like dahlias.
Dunlop: What-cha-call-em was one of his best buyers - Dr. Spackman, surgeon.
Woman: Dr. Spackman - had the bulbs, he'd sell the bulbs. They were beautiful, some of them. And he had a hothouse where he started all of his seedlings in front, on the back of the house.
Bennett: Now, okay, if he had a hothouse, was it...
Dunlop: No, just a small one.
Bennett: Next to like where the shed was that you would go down into the root cellar, was it in that area?
Woman: It was right off the back of the house.
Bennett: Did he enter from the outside - did he have to go in it that way or was it...
Dunlop: Yeah, you had to go in from the outside, out from the outside.
Woman: But he'd start all of his seedlings in there, you know, for the tomatoes.
Dunlop: If I knew all these questions, and give me a couple of days, then I could of laid this out better for you.
Bennett: I think you're doing very well. And you know, it's interesting because things you mentioned you haven't thought about for a long time, and it's true, one thing makes you remember...
Dunlop: Well, I was going over this last night, she'll tell you. Thinking things.
Bennett: Did you have shrubs as well as flowers, or just flowers?
Dunlop: We had a hedge around, that's all.
Bennett: How about herbs, did he grow herbs as well?
Woman: Not that I know of, no.
Dunlop: I don't remember any herbs.
Bennett: You mentioned the rhubarb, now rhubarb was always in the same place? Where did he keep that, where did he have that growing?
Dunlop: In with where the flowers was.
Bennett: In with the flowers, the rhubarb?
Dunlop: Yeah, yeah.
Bennett: Okay, now chickens, now we sort of did discuss this, but it's next on the list. What breed of chicken did he use, grow, do you know - raise I should say.
Dunlop: Cornish - Cornish chickens, that's the one we used that, you know, they operated on and …
Dunlop: Yeah, that's what the Cornish.
Bennett: And he only raised the capons?
Dunlop: No, we had Wyandotts and Leghorns for the egg man.
Bennett: Now you did say they ran free, rather than being fenced in - no problem?
Dunlop: Yeah - no, no problem.
Bennett: The other - you took care of the chickens, was it your job?
Dunlop: Well, I used to clean the cubes and all, Mother too. Killed a lot of lice on me, outside of that, it wasn't bad. (Laughs)
Woman: Oh, I used to feed the chickens when I lived there.
Bennett: The other livestock that I have listed here is ducks.
Dunlop: Yeah, we had ducks.
Bennett: You had the ducks. Did you have cows?
Dunlop: No cows.
Bennett: How about goats?
Dunlop: No goats.
Bennett: I know you had rabbits, right?
Dunlop: Yeah, rabbits.
Bennett: And they, you said they were the big rabbits, this would be for the table I suppose, the big, meaty ones.
Dunlop: Yeah, yeah.
- Hunting and fishing; Wakes and funerals; Window coverings; WeddingsKeywords: Brandywine Creek; Fishing; Funerals; Hunting; Hunting dogs; Raccoon hunting; Shades; Shutters; Wakes; Weddings; Window cveringsTranscript: Bennett: Did you ever go hunting or fishing?
Dunlop: I did, yeah. I fished in the Brandywine when I was a boy.
Bennett: For fun, or for food, or both?
Dunlop: Well, for fun and for food, we’ ve ate them. Sunfish and catfish, they were good eating then. We used to be able to drink that Brandywine water, but you can't drink it today.
Bennett: That's true. Did you go hunting at all?
Dunlop: Yeah, I went squirrel hunting and rabbit hunting.
Bennett: Where did you go?
Dunlop: All over there.
Bennett: In that area?
Dunlop: Oh, yeah. Westover Hills was farmland then when I was a kid. We used to trap muskrats back in there.
Bennett: Well, that's hunting too, isn't it, really, trapping the muskrats? And what would you do, sell the...
Dunlop: Sell the hide, never ate the meat, we never cared much for it - give it away, the meat.
Bennett: People do like it.
Dunlop: Yeah, I can't...
Woman: Our son, our youngest son trapped muskrats too, all down along the Brandywine, to sell the hides. He was a great coon hunter. We had a kennel - how many dogs? Coon dogs - how many?
Dunlop: Well, at one time I had 31, that's counting field trial and everything. I used to be in the field trial game, too.
Bennett: I don't know what you mean by that, would you tell me, Mr. Dunlop?
Dunlop: Well, field trial is where you - they take the wet bag of the coon and travel it all over two or three mile and then turn the dogs loose and you leave the coon up in the tree and they have first tree, and first across the line. See, they have so many dogs entry, cost you so much, and then you get the pot, whatever it is.
Bennett: Whoever - dog wins?
Dunlop: Yeah. I hunt in Reading and all through Pennsylvania and Maryland. I done pretty good, very good.
Bennett: Now where did you keep these coon dogs?
Dunlop: Back down there - the yellow house - this is when I'm older now.
Bennett: This is older, alright.
Dunlop: After I was married, you know. I had a shed down there.
Bennett: And they all stayed...
Dunlop: Had a pen, yeah. But I sold and traded a lot. One time I had 31, but the average, I only had four, you know, fast turnover.
Bennett: So you said that you would do muskrats over at Westover Hills?
Dunlop: That's right.
Bennett: And all through the Brandywine area - any other place?
Dunlop: Well, I went down State, I've been down Smyrna and Odessa, yeah.
Bennett: Birthdays - was there a special occasion on a birthday?
Dunlop: No, not that I know of. Just a plain day (laughs).
Bennett: Nothing special, huh?
Dunlop: Nothing special.
Woman: Only when the grandchildren started coming along.
Bennett: Then it was different, but not back when you were growing up. How about wakes and funerals and burials, was there, I'm speaking of way back - do you remember the wakes?
Dunlop: Yeah, when I was a young boy, we never went to them, but well when I was a young boy I went to wakes with my friends. I was a Protestant and they were Catholics, that didn't mean nothing in them days: just one big happy family. Sometimes I'd go in to - when they went on Saturday nights...
Dunlop: Confession, that's the way we went. There was never, there was no - it was great, nobody thought of anything of prejudice or anything, it was just one of them things. I remember one time, I don't know if it's on there or not, I was jumping back of an ice wagon, and Father Scott...
Woman: I think you told her.
Dunlop: I think I told them - and he come along and he'd grab us and he'd say you - started smacking me, they said "You can't smack him, he's a Protestant." He said, "Yes I can, too, cause I used to be a Protestant minister."
Bennett: How about funerals, do you remember any particulars about the funerals and burials?
Bennett: That would be different than today?
Bennett: No traditions?
Bennett: No Scotch traditions that might, you did the same thing.
Bennett: In your house, did you have window shades? I mean your Mother's and Father's house, did you have shades?
Woman: Pull up and down shades.
Dunlop: Pull up and down shades.
Bennett: Was it a green color?
Dunlop: That's the only color they were made in them days I think.
Bennett: Did you have shutters?
Bennett: How about curtains?
Woman: Grandmom wasn't too much for curtains.
Dunlop: She wasn't much for curtains.
Woman: When I came there to live, I put curtains up, things like that.
Dunlop: See, we lived with my Mother there on - oh, I don't know what? Two years. All did, to get a start in life, you know?
Bennett: Oh sure, I think that's the way it was.
Dunlop: They don't do that - well, today, I don't know what they're doing.
Woman: That's where our first baby was born.
Bennett: Now did they keep the house, the windows open, or was it always closed up, your house?
Woman: No it was open.
Dunlop: We aired them.
Bennett: You aired - you believed in airing.
Dunlop: Yeah, the beds too.
Bennett: How about lighting, did you - how did you light the house, your mother's?
Bennett: Oil, how about outside at night, was it...
Dunlop: Not til later on, you know, after I was married, but not - that's all.
Woman: When I first moved out there...
Dunlop: We cooked with an oil stove when I was a boy, and the cookstove.
Bennett: How about the floors of the houses, were they brick, stone, wood?
Woman: They were all wood.
Dunlop: They were wood out there - Mother's - they were wood, hard wood.
Bennett: Okay, you just did tell me about the kitchen stove, were there special tools - did you have a wood box, you only had - did you have a wood box, do you remember a wood box?
Dunlop: Yeah, we had small one in there, in the big room we had...
Woman: Yeah, in the kitchen where she had the big, black cookstove, we had a wooden box alongside there kept the wood in.
Bennett: And tools, were the tools there?
Woman: I don't remember any tools.
Bennett: Sort of poked the wood and so forth?
Woman: Oh, we had a poker, yeah, to poke up the wood.
Dunlop: Yeah, but we had that fire box when I was a kid, I mean, got nothing but wood, big square box, sand in the bottom of it - wood stove.
Bennett: Did you have a stove in the parlor?
Dunlop: Yep, we had one in the bedroom, too.
Bennett: Not everybody had that.
Woman: They called it a pot bellied...
Bennett: How about weddings, and I'm going back when you were a young man, do you remember weddings as such, celebration?
Bennett: How about shivarees - do you remember a shivaree?
Woman: This is our daughter (some noise as she is greeted).
Bennett: How about honeymoons?(Tape is turned off for a few minutes until disturbance is over.)
Bennett: The weddings, do you remember what the bride would wear?
Woman: Well, the only one I really remember is his sister, and I stood for her. And she just wore a dressy dress and that was all.
Bennett: What did you wear?
Woman: I wore an ordinary, you know, dress, street-length dress, a little fancier than I would wear any other time, but that was all.
Bennett: Did you have a reception?
Woman: Yes, at his mother's home and I baked the wedding cake.
Bennett: How many people attended the reception, was it just family or...
Woman: Just mostly family, yeah, a few friends, but mostly family.
Bennett: Did they go on a honeymoon?
Woman: Yes, but I think they went to Atlantic City, that's the only thing I remember.
Bennett: So there really weren't that many weddings?
Woman: No, they didn't make the big things that they do today, no.
- Household objects; Getting to and from school; Going to work; Dating; ToysKeywords: Alexis I. du Pont School (Wilmington, Del.); Bethlehem Steel; Boots; Coffee; Coffee grinders; Courting; Dating; Doormats; Gloves; Hayrides; Lemonade; Raincoats; Shoes; SledsTranscript: Bennett: At your house, did you have the door mats?
Bennett: Did you have a door mat?
Woman: Oh yeah.
Bennett: Foot scrapers?
Dunlop: No, we didn't have no foot scrapers, no, I know that. We had door mats.
Woman: We had one out on Breck's Lane.
Dunlop: Well, I'm talking about living when I was a boy.
Woman: When you were a boy, no.
Bennett: What did you do with muddy boots and shoes?
Dunlop: That'd be a hard one to answer (laughs)
Woman: I made my boys leave them out on the porch, the back porch.
Bennett: How did you dry your boots and your gloves and your mittens if they got wet? That type of thing.
Dunlop: On the stove, on the back of the stove.
Bennett: You would put it on the back of the stove. Did you have a coffee grinder?
Bennett: You didn't?
Woman: I'm sure your mother had one.
Woman: Your mother had one.
Dunlop: Had a coffee grinder? Well, I didn't see it. She was a tea woman, girl.
Woman: I know she was a tea woman, but she had a coffee grinder.
Dunlop: We never used that much coffee out there, she was tea, that's all she drank was tea.
Bennett: Where was the tea stored?
Woman: She had a caddy, what they call a caddy, a tea caddy. And then she always had the tea cozy and she'd make the pot of tea, you know, and put the cozy, she never used tea bags or anything like that, no.
Bennett: Where did she store it, the tea?
Woman: Well, I told you she kept all the staples, tea or anything she had...
Bennett: That stayed in that same cupboard.
Woman: In that same cupboard.
Bennett: Did she ever have iced tea?
Woman: No, I don't ever remember of anyone having iced tea.
Dunlop: I don't remember iced tea.
Bennett: How about lemonade?
Dunlop: No, I don't know - we never had lemonade that I remember.
Bennett: Soft drinks?
Dunlop: No-o, we were poor (laughs).
Bennett: Did she have indoor plants?
Woman: No, I don't think grandmother ever bothered with them: I did, but not her, she never bothered with too many plants.
Bennett: How about window boxes, did you have...
Dunlop: She didn't have any out there, we didn’ t have any, Mother didn't.
Bennett: Did you have a grape arbor?
Dunlop: No, I don't think so. Maybe we did, but I don't remember, no, I don't think we did.
Bennett: How about lawn furniture, porch furniture?
Dunlop: No way.
Bennett: Who mowed the lawn?
Dunlop: Wasn't no lawn to mow.
Bennett: It was all garden and...
Dunlop: All garden and everything.
Woman: And flowers.
Bennett: How about watering, did you have - who did the watering of the plants in the garden?
Dunlop: Oh, well, the rain most took - we didn't have too much water to do in them days, only when we planted, you know. We carried water in a bucket.
Woman: They had a pump. They had a pump outside the house.
Dunlop: We had a pump, we never had no running water. Did we have running water there?
Woman: Yeah, you had running water, but you had the pump outside the house, yeah.
Dunlop: Outside, yeah.
Bennett: Did you, in other words, when you did water, then it would be by the bucketful?
Dunlop: Yeah, that's right.
Bennett – What about, did you have a raincoat?
Bennett: And if you went to school and it was raining real hard, what did you do?
Dunlop: Went to school.
Dunlop: Well, most of the time we'd get wet, that's all, we wouldn't go until it stopped raining.
Bennett: Oh, you'd wait until the - let's say you had a three-day storm, you didn't have any sort of a rain cover, any protection?
Dunlop: No, we just go out and go, that's all. Well, we didn't have far to go to the school, Alexis I. du Pont School, I could run it in three minutes, you know, through the back fields and all. I think it was a quarter of a mile would be the most that you would have to go.
Bennett: Do you remember any funny stories or jokes?
Dunlop: Nope - wasn't educated enough.
Bennett: How about expressions and sayings like - Red sky at night, sailor's delight - do you remember any of those kind of sayings, do you remember any of those?
Bennett: Do you know any ghost stories or superstitions – were there any superstitions that you remember from the neighborhood?
Dunlop: No, not when I was a boy - never brought up.
Bennett: Like if you step on a crack, you break your mother's back? You know, those kind of...
Woman: Down in the city - I came from the city and you had everything, you know - electricity and inside plumbing and water and everything, and went out to live there to live and didn't have anything. I was scared to death at night it was so dark.
Dunlop: No lights out there, nothing.
Bennett: It made a difference, I'm sure. It's easy to go the other way.
Woman: Yes, yes.
Bennett: At what age did the kids start to go to work?
Dunlop: Well, I went to work when I was twelve years old, cause I got throwed out - well, I'd say thirteen anyhow – cause I got, I didn't make out in school, I was in the sixth grade for two years and I didn't go back after that. But when I went to learn my trade, I was what you call slow, you know, and when I went to learn my trade and went to school at night - Wilmington High School – then everything come back fast then. I just didn't get – the teachers didn't get through to me, we had so many teachers, we had English and geography and history and all that and this way - a fellow by the name of Keenan, was an old-timer, well he was old then, and he teached Wilmington High School. I learned my trade at Bethlehem Steel down at Front and West.
Bennett: And who got the money?
Dunlop: My Mother.
Bennett: All of it?
Dunlop: Fifty cents I got, that's it.
Bennett: And she got it all?
Dunlop: Got it all - well it wasn't - well it was a lot of money at the time, I think it was the last three years I got twelve dollars a week, and she got fifty cents. And when I got the twelve dollars, I didn't get nothing that I can remember to amount to anything. It never bothered me, you know, it's not like kids...
Bennett: They were all in the same boat.
Dunlop: Yeah, you know, it never bothered me.
Bennett: When you started dating, did you go out alone, or did you have to have, like the girls, did they have to have a chaperone?
Dunlop: No, when I dated her why...
Woman: Well, you dated before me when you went on hayrides.
Dunlop: Oh well, I dated before you, but we went on picnics and everybody in a crowd, and went to Lenepe and Shields's wood trucks and all that, and it was a different life and nobody thought anything but just happy. Not today, we never had no crazy ideas.
Bennett: Just fun.
Dunlop: Yeah, that's right, that's right.
Bennett: How about sparking?
Bennett: Sparking, when you got the little girls off on a road, did you try to kiss her?
Dunlop: No, we didn't think anything about that.
Bennett: You had enough to talk about, right? You said you took the Shields's truck to Lenepe?
Dunlop: Yeah, we hired them.
Bennett: And you went on hayrides?
Dunlop: That's right.
Bennett: Horses or mules, what: how did the...
Dunlop: Horses - no, truck, truck, truck, them big old trucks - Mack trucks.
Bennett: Did you have a sleigh?
Dunlop: No, I had a sled, but I didn't have a sleigh.
Bennett: No sleigh? Did you ever go for sleigh rides?
Bennett: Do you remember the, well no that wouldn't - did you collect any rain water at your house?
Dunlop: Not as I remember.
Bennett: No barrels to collect the rain water?
Dunlop: A lot of people did, I know a lot of people did.
Bennett: What did they use it for?
Dunlop: Well, I don't know what they used it, but I remember they used to have them underneath the rain thing.
Bennett: But you didn't collect it in your house?
Woman: Well, it was a softer water and we used to use it for washing, the ones I remember, cause it was softer than the water.
Dunlop: Can't use it for washing today, the acid would eat the clothes up, what's in that rain.
Bennett: Did you have toys?
Bennett: You said that you did make a wagon?
Bennett: And you never had any bought toys at all?
Dunlop: No. I had one bought toy once, was a sled when I was a kid, a sled.
Bennett: That's the only toy?
Dunlop: That's the only one I ever remember.
- Heirlooms from Scotland; Fishing in the Brandywine; Gathering blackberries; Using Eagle Brand condensed milk and other dairy products; Taking care of the ice box and storing foodKeywords: Blackberries; Brandywine Creek; Butter; China; Clocks; Du Pont, S. Hallock (Samuel Hallock), 1901-1974; Eagle Brand condensed milk; Eels; Eggs; Fishing; Food; Gathering; Heirlooms; Ice boxes; Immigration; Kitchens; Scotland; Shawls; Silverware; Soup tureens; TraditionsTranscript: Bennett: You didn't have any balls or - did your mother have any favorite items like heirlooms that she brought with her from Scotland - she did.
Dunlop: Oh yeah, she had plenty of them.
Bennett: What did she bring, do you remember?
Woman: Soup tureen - one of the du Ponts got that, she sold it to one of the du Ponts, I don't know which one.
Dunlop: She brought some shawls, Scotch shawls.
Woman: Shawls, yeah. Well, there was dishes, she had dishes from Scotland.
Bennett: Did she have those displayed or were they put away in a cupboard?
Woman: No, she used them.
Dunlop: Used them all the time.
Bennett: She used them.
Woman: Yeah, her silverware and her china she brought from Scotland, she used it, yes.
Dunlop: That was good china, too.
Bennett: The clock, did it come, did she bring that?
Woman: Yes, they brought that.
Bennett: Where did she have that?
Dunlop: That's a wedding present from my Father and Mother.
Bennett: That's nice.
Dunlop: And that's supposed to be handed down by the name of Thomas.
Woman: Dunlop, it's a Dunlop.
Dunlop: Dunlop, we don't have no hand-me-downs of Dunlop, but my son is named Thomas in the middle and then the grandson is named Thomas and my oldest son that was named Thomas, he don't have no children and he wasn't named after me, I mean.
Woman: Your great-grandfather.
Dunlop: He was named after his grandfather and his great-grandfather.
Bennett: This is tradition, then.
Woman: Yeah, that's tradition.
Bennett: That would be tradition I would say. Where did your mother had the clock, was it in the living room?
Woman: U-huh, it was in the living room on the wall.
Bennett: How about furniture, did she bring any furniture with her?
Bennett: She brought shawls you said.
Woman: Yes, the Scotch plaids, yeah - the Tartans. They had their own Tartan, you know.
Bennett: Did she ever talk about what she had to leave behind?
Dunlop: She wished she of went back there again, she didn't like it here.
Woman: She didn't like it here.
Bennett: She didn't? I guess...
Dunlop: No, she come off of dairy farm, she was a dairy girl, my Father was a city slicker, I guess. She didn't like it.
Bennett: Did she ever talk about what she left behind and wish she have brought it with her?
Woman: No: always talked about the hills of Scotland, the heather, you know.
Dunlop: And the moors.
Woman: And the moors, yeah. I have a piece of heather here that she sent to me when Tom and I were going together, and she was over in Scotland on a trip.
Bennett: Oh, imagine! That's nice. Did you ever catch any eels?
Dunlop: Yeah, caught eels in the Brandywine.
Bennett: Alright - what did you do with them?
Dunlop: Mine - I et 'em.
Bennett: How did you catch them?
Dunlop: Catch them on a hook and line, open line.
Bennett: Just lucky you could catch them, is that it?
Dunlop: No, wasn't any trouble. Course later on after I got married, why there a book in there that will show you plenty of fish. See them trophies?
Woman: He's got a whole roomful of trophies: fishing, he's fished all over.
Dunlop: I really went into fishing good, making rods, making buck tails, I do all that now.
Woman: Sells them.
Bennett: That's what keeps him young - that's what it is. Did you have a smoke house?
Dunlop: A what?
Bennett: Now you did discuss, but I'm not sure that it was on the tape, the walnuts that your son laid out on the floor of the attic - yes, I guess it is on the tape, is it not? Okay. How about berries, did you gather berries?
Bennett: Where did you gather those?
Woman: Run wild all over the place.
Dunlop: They were all over the fields and all.
Bennett: Did you preserve them for jelly or just eat them?
Woman: No. Yes, blackberry mush or blackberry pies, tarts or something like that - I made, yeah, when my kids were growing up.
Bennett: Did you have any herbs that you dried?
Bennett: Did you ever go on picnics?
Dunlop: Picnics - no.
Woman: Sunday School picnics.
Dunlop: Sunday School, yeah, went on the Sunday School picnics. Well, that was the same: they got - there wasn't too many at Greenville that I remember - no, no - I think one time we went in Shields's trucks.
Bennett: How about Holly Island - do you remember Holly Island?
Dunlop: Yeah, fished from Holly Island. That's right across - right in the Brandywine, it's the first island up as you go in the entrance.
Bennett: Was it a popular place to fish from?
Dunlop: Nobody - wasn't many fished that place, only a few of us, and a very few, then there was fish there. See, Hallock du Pont had ponds up there with trout in it and when the storm would come up, it would wash over the dam, and a lot of them trout would go out in the Brandywine and then they'd go upstream, but they couldn't get no farther than Holly Island because the dam was there and they couldn't get over the dam.
Bennett: Okay - good use for Holly Island then, huh?
Bennett: How about your mattresses and your pillows, do you remember those? Do you, Mrs. Dunlop?
Woman: The only thing I remember is one time we had a horsehair mattress and it was hard as a rock, but I don't remember any out of the ordinary - they aren't like today's - they were flat, they didn't have springs in them or anything like that. And all the pillows were feather pillows, cause they used to make them themselves.
Bennett: Everybody made their own?
Bennett: Did you have bed warmers?
Woman: No, not that I remember.
Dunlop: I did when I was a kid, had a hot water bottle, remember that.
Bennett: How about milk - where did you get your milk and how was it stored?
Dunlop: Now that's one thing I can't remember about the milk when I was a kid. I don't know where we got it from, I know there was one place where they got milk, but I don't remember that. That's one thing I never – I can't think how we got our milk. I'll tell you what we did use a lot, we used a lot of the condensed milk with the eagle on it, not the Pet, but the Eagle, that's what...
Woman: Eagle Brand.
Bennett: Eagle Brand.
Dunlop: Yeah, that's right, that's what we used most of the time. In fact, that's what we did use.
Bennett: Maybe that's why you don't...
Dunlop: That's right.
Bennett: How about butter?
Dunlop: Oh, we used good butter.
Bennett: Did your mother make it, or did she buy it?
Dunlop: No, we bought...
Woman: She has made it, I saw her...
Dunlop: Oh, she has made it.
Woman: But she didn't make it as a rule...
Dunlop: Didn’ t make it as a rule, just once in a while.
Woman: Just once in a while she'd make it cause she come from a dairy farm and she knew how to make it.
Dunlop: She knew how to make it - I saw her patting it with a wood and all, rolling in.
Bennett: Where did she buy the butter?
Dunlop: Oh, I guess one of the stores.
Bennett: The local...
Dunlop: Yeah, well we had a lot of stuff, like we had our meat delivered, the man come around twice a week, was a couple of them. Fellow named Gilson and another fellow name of Carney. We used to call Mr. Gilson Shoe Leather on account of the meat (laughs).
Woman: The steak.
Dunlop: It was red, well it was round, you can't cook round, fry round.
Bennett: So that was his nickname, Shoe Leather?
Dunlop: That's what I called him, but he was a nice man.
Bennett: Now the butter, did she buy it like the tub butter and it came in a scoop rather than - it wasn't packaged in quarters?
Dunlop: No, no.
Bennett: Where did she store it?
Woman: I don't remember that.
Dunlop: We had an ice box, we had an ice box. You'd get a piece of ice every so many days, fifty pound. I remember that.
Bennett: Where was the ice box kept?
Dunlop: Back in the kitchen. See, them kitchens was big, I mean, in them old houses, they were big kitchens. And we never ate in the kitchen, we ate in the dining room. The kitchen was everything - you washed in the kitchen and you done everything in the kitchen - hung clothes sometimes and everything else.
Bennett: That's where everything...
Dunlop: Had a big stove in there and the heat would dry the clothes, you know, on bad days.
Bennett: You said the ice man came twice a week?
Dunlop: Yeah: he just passed away about a year ago - fellow by the name of Rowe - Richard Rowe. And he owns, oh I guess he left it to his children, he owns that station there, the train station at the bottom of Rising Sun Lane, and all in there he owns. Owns that where the beer garden was, there was old Tom. Du Ponts wanted to buy it and he wouldn't sell it - it's worth a fortune, he wouldn't sell it. Mrs. Copeland wanted to buy it, where the tunnel went across, they put a tunnel across there, you know the Reading tunnel, well he owns all that property. He's worth money.
Bennett: You didn't have an ice house then, you just...
Dunlop: I don't know if we had an ice house. I remember – I remember when I was a kid they used to cut the ice out of the Brandywine, put it in the sawdust: yeah, I remember that, I've been down there and seen them cutting it, and it used to freeze pretty thick on the Brandywine.
Bennett: Oh yeah. Do you remember when you got your ice box at your house?
Dunlop: No, I can never remember that one.
Bennett: Now the eggs that you had.
Dunlop: We never bought eggs, we got them out of the...
Bennett: How did you store your eggs?
Dunlop: Well, I don't know how we stored them, but I guess just in a basket.
Woman: What Grandmom called the egg basket, it was always full of eggs, you know. A lot of times it was just sitting on the dresser, what she called the dresser, you know, it was part of that big, tall closet, and it would be sitting there.
Dunlop: And we were talking about that big, tall closet – that closet was six foot wide and right up to the ceiling.
Bennett: What color was it?
Dunlop: Brown I think - wasn't it brown?
Bennett: Did it have any drawers in it?
Woman: Yeah, it had drawers in it and shelves went all the way up, deep - doors opened. That's where she used to keep the soup tureen until she sold it, but it was a beautiful thing. I don't know whether Mrs. W. K. or - one of the du Ponts bought it.
Bennett: Did you have brown or white eggs?
Bennett: Different sizes?
Dunlop: Yeah, large - big double yolks, just depends.
- Liquor at home; Visiting friends; Tobacco use; Taking lunch to school; Men's hats and shoes; Clocks and watches; Bells and whistlesKeywords: Bells; Chewing tobacco; DuPont Experimental Station; Friends; Hats; Liquor; Lunch; Money; Piedmont cigarettes; School; Shoes; Social engagements; Tobacco; Visiting; Whiskey; WhistlesTranscript: Bennett: Did you have liquor at home?
Bennett: Liquor - whiskey?
Dunlop: Yes we did.
Bennett: You did?
Dunlop: My father was Scotch.
Bennett: Okay. Did he drink all the time.
Dunlop: He'd drink pretty heavy.
Bennett: Did he ever go to the bar? Or did he drink mostly at home?
Dunlop: No, he went to the bar too. Yeah, he liked his whiskey.
Bennett: And would he meet with his friends there - this would be sort of a …
Dunlop: Yeah, yeah he done that alright.
Bennett: Now how about visiting friends, would he and your mother and you as a family go and visit people?
Bennett: Where would you go?
Dunlop: Well we'd go, like my friends would come there, bought the flowers and stuff like that. But not too many - Mother belonged to the MacGreggors and Lodge MacGreggor and she was President for years and my Father, he belonged to it - it was a Scotch Club called MacGreggor.
Bennett: How about gambling, did...
Dunlop: No, no gambling.
Bennett: Nobody -you said you didn't play bocce –
Dunlop: Bocce.(He says boo-chee)
Bennett: I always say bocce –
Dunlop: No, never played.
Bennett: How about smoking and chewing tobacco?
Dunlop: Well - now, or when I was a kid?
Bennett: As a child, as a kid.
Dunlop: As a child, yeah, I tried it: Piedmont cigarettes that made me sick, and chewed tobacco and it made me sick, but after I got older, why I haven't had a drink for thirty-two years and no cigarettes for thirty-two years.
Bennett: I remember Piedmont cigarettes.
Woman: Do you?
Bennett: Are they still around?
Dunlop: I don't know.
Woman: I don't think so.
Bennett: My uncle, when I was little, he used to smoke Piedmonts, I remember that.
Dunlop: Boy they are strong.
Bennett: Yeah, I think that's what I've heard that they were. Did your father smoke?
Dunlop: Yeah, he smoked Piedmonts.
Bennett: Do you remember any other name other than Piedmont?
Dunlop: Oh, there was - now you got me - Piedmonts, and Chesterfields and Lucky Strikes, there was older ones, but I can't think of the name of it.
Woman: Fatima was one of them.
Dunlop: Fatima, yeah - Camels and then there was roll your own, too, we used to roll your own for a while. Bought them machines and you put the stuff in it.
Bennett: Did you have any cuspidors in your house?
Dunlop: No, nobody...
Bennett: Do you remember them in the bars?
Dunlop: Yeah, in the bars, yeah - brass ones.
Bennett: How about, did you have a lunch box when you went to school?
Dunlop: No, we had a bag.
Bennett: Just took a bag.
Bennett: How about when you worked, did you have a lunch box?
Dunlop: Had a lunch box when I went to work, yeah, I had a lunch box.
Bennett: And what did you usually take for lunch in the lunch box?
Dunlop: Just sandwiches is all I can tell you, an orange or something like that - fruit.
Bennett: How about when you went to school, the same thing?
Dunlop: Well, we never saw much fruit as I can remember.
Woman: Mostly just sandwiches.
Dunlop: We had jelly sandwiches a lot. We used to call that chitenjuley - that's the Scotch name for that.
Woman: Bread and jelly.
Dunlop: Bread and jelly, that's it.
Bennett: Did you - would you have a piece of cake, maybe, to go with it?
Dunlop: Oh, when I was working, but not when I went to school.
Bennett: Not when you went to school.
Dunlop: No, not when I went to school. Wasn't such a thing as cakes them days.
Bennett: Did you usually eat at school, or did you come home sometimes?
Dunlop: No, I ate at school.
Bennett: Did you have a schoolbag that you carried your books, or did you have one of those straps that wrapped your books together?
Dunlop: No, no.
Bennett: How about men's hats - did your father have a special hat for Sunday, or did it - and you, did you have Sunday hats as well as …
Dunlop: No, not that I can remember when I was a kid. Well, the derbies was around and Dad didn't dress up too much, Dad never dressed up.
Bennett: The derby would be a formal hat, it would be for dress, right?
Dunlop: Yeah, derby.
Bennett: Did he wear a cap on his head most of the time?
Dunlop: Oh, yeah, he'd wear a cap all the time.
Bennett: What kind of cap?
Dunlop: Just regular plain cap, that's all, you know, wasn't any gray or any color you want to talk about.
Woman: Two or three caps or something like that.
Dunlop: He always had a cap on. If you didn't watch him, he'd have a cap on when he was eating, you know.
Bennett: It was just part of him, yes.
Dunlop: Yeah, that's right.
Bennett: Do you remember paper hats for kids you would make out of a newspaper, I think?
Dunlop: Yeah, I remember them, yeah.
Bennett: Did you ever have those?
Dunlop: Yeah, we had them. We made them, folded them up - airplanes the same way, shoot across...
Bennett: How about shoes - your father's - do you remember what his work shoes looked like?
Dunlop: No, he was a plasterer - they were just plain shoes, as I can remember.
Bennett: Did he have dress ones as well as …
Dunlop: If he did, I didn't know it.
Bennett: Okay - and your mother, the same - do you remember her shoes at all, what they would look like?
Dunlop: She wasn't too much on that either.
Bennett: The next here is clocks and watches, and we did discuss the clock - did your mother or father have a watch?
Dunlop: Yeah, Mother had a watch, Father had a watch - just plain watches, like the dollar dickey, or whatever you want to call them. Mother had pretty good watches, she brought a couple over from Scotland with her - had pearls and diamonds in them.
Woman: I don't know what became of them.
Dunlop: I don't either.
Bennett: Was it the type that she wore on a chain?
Woman: On a pin.
Bennett: On a pin, okay.
Woman: Billy got your father's.
Woman: Billy, your nephew - yeah, got your Father's watch. Just one of those round... watches.
Bennett: Did he keep it with him all the time?
Bennett: How about, did he have a chain that he...
Dunlop: No, he kept it in his watch pocket - with a fob on it, you know, little leather.
Bennett: Yeah, I know what you mean.
Woman: A fob.
Bennett: How about, do you remember like whistles, like work whistles or bells, anything...
Dunlop: Well, the DuPont Company used to blow five minutes of eight and eight o'clock and twelve o'clock and stuff like that, we had that whistle. Experimental Station, you could hear it.
Bennett: How about church bells, do you remember those?
Dunlop: Yes: St. Joseph's is the only one had the bells, Presbyterian up at Greenhill didn't have any.
Bennett: Talk about the way money was saved: did they save it in a jar or did you go to the bank: how did they save their money? I mean...
Dunlop: I don't remember any money to save, tell you the God's truth, we never had no money. We had a jar there if you wanted to get something: it wouldn't be over two dollars in the jar, if I can remember. Money was never around my house.
Bennett: So they never took it to a bank or anything?
Dunlop: No, we never had no bank, no. I never had a bank account until I got married to her, after we got straightened out.
- Celebrating holidays; Sundays and going to church; Pets; Poisonous snakes on the Brandywine; Dairy products; Making parsnip wine and beer; The kitchen, furniture and other objects; Portraits and wall decorations; Housing boarders during World War IKeywords: Beer; Butter; Buttermilk; Chairs; Copperheads; Dogs; Easter; Electricity; Fourth of July; Furniture; Kitchens; Moccasins; Pabst Blue Ribbon; Parsnip wine; Pets; Photographs; Snakes; Stoves; Sunday; Sunday school; Tables; Thanksgiving; World War (1914-1918)Transcript: Bennett: How about Thanksgiving, was it celebrated in a special way?
Dunlop: No, we had chicken, that's it, we never had no turkey. I never had turkey until I married her.
Woman: Never ate olives.
Dunlop: Never ate olives til I married her.
Bennett: Well, that I can understand. I can understand the olives, yes.
Woman: No, they never had a Christmas dinner, it was always New Year's.
Bennett: Fourth of July, what about Fourth of July?
Dunlop: We shot firecrackers off. The kids had some money, some kids like the Matthewsons was up, and they were more, they had a little more money than we had, and that's all.
Bennett: How about Easter, was that celebrated in a special way?
Dunlop: Not as I can remember, I know we never got no Easter clothes.
Bennett: Was Sunday different than the rest of the week?
Dunlop: Well, Sunday was different. You wasn't allowed to do any work around the house.
Bennett: Did your mother cook on Sunday?
Dunlop: Oh, yeah, she cooked.
Woman: Went to church.
Dunlop: As far as doing any chores around the house, you didn't do it.
Bennett: Did you go out and play?
Dunlop: Well, we used to – that’ s about all, take a walk or go to Sunday School. We used to have to go to Sunday School.
Bennett: But could you play ball?
Bennett: You weren't allowed to play ball?
Bennett: Not on Sunday.
Dunlop: I remember, I know I still got a book in there for good attendance for Sunday School.
Bennett: Your pets, did you have dogs? You mentioned the coon dogs.
Dunlop: Well, we had...
Woman: That was when we were married.
Dunlop: We had family dogs around the house too. Them coon dogs I had after I was married, but we had, when I was a young boy, we had young dogs, like rabbit dogs, stuff like that.
Bennett: Did you have any dogs that lived in the house, or cats?
Dunlop: No, they were all - well, no, they were all outside too when I was a kid.
Bennett: And the rabbits - okay. Turtles, how about did you have any turtles?
Dunlop: No, no turtles.
Bennett: Do you remember poisonous snakes?
Dunlop – There wasn't too many around, only up in the powder mills there - the Copperheads and the Moccasins was up in there. Moccasin hung around that Holly Island, cause I've killed a few and seen sun fish - oh, pretty good size sun fish inside of them - yeah, they're poisonous. Well, you can smell a copperhead - when I used to hunt with dogs up there, used to watch out because they smell like a cucumber, strong, just like a cucumber.
Bennett: They did?
Dunlop: Yeah. You got a lot of miles of stone walls up there, you know.
Bennett: Yes, yes. Did your house have a second stove, a utility stove, or just the one big stove?
Dunlop: Well, we had, yeah we had two other ones besides the big stove. We had a big cook stove in the kitchen, and we had the wood fire in the - and then after we got rid of the wood fire, we put another stove in there – something new it was.
Woman: Oil - oil stoves.
Dunlop: No, not that one, the one with the coal, yeah we had one in there with the coal.
Bennett: What was it used for, the extra stove.
Woman: Just to heat.
Dunlop: Just to heat was all it was.
Bennett: Just to heat, not for cooking?
Dunlop: Only had one cooking stove and that was out in the kitchen. And I always called the kitchen the shed because it was, you know, a big, really big – pretty good size.
Bennett: Do you remember ever having popcorn?
Bennett: Do you remember that your Mother might have had Irish lace: lacy...
Dunlop: She might have had Scotch, but I don't remember...
Bennett: Not Irish lace. Sachet is a nice little odor - do you remember that your mother might have had sachet or potpourri - something, nice odor for the house?
Dunlop: My Mother never used any perfume, rouge or nothing, she had a natural color - a beautiful - jet black hair.
Bennett: That pretty - and the pink cheeks.
Dunlop: She had the dairy look. She used to wash her face with buttermilk on it.
Bennett: Did she?
Dunlop: Yeah, she claimed that was good for her.
Bennett: That was...
Woman: Buttermilk - I remember that –
Dunlop: We used to drink a lot of it too.
Woman: I don't know where they got it, though.
Dunlop: I don't know either.
Bennett: Now we talked about milk, and you remembered canned milk...
Woman: Yeah, but didn't remember the...
Bennett: And then now the buttermilk comes up, and you think about it. And doesn't that, if you're making butter, don't you get buttermilk before you - doesn't it turn the cream to …
Woman: I don't know, I don't know.
Bennett: Did your family, did they make wine?
Dunlop: No - oh yeah, Daddy did one time with the parsnips, he growed parsnips, parsnip wine. Yeah, he made parsnip wine. It's pure white, he run it and distilled it, though.
Dunlop: Yeah, parsnips makes wonderful wine.
Bennett: What does it taste like?
Dunlop: Oh, it's a sweet wine, it'll floor you though, it's really strong.
Bennett: Almost like a liqueur, I suppose?
Dunlop: Well, it's like pure white wine, and it's a good drink.
Bennett: Did they ever make beer?
Dunlop: Yeah - Pabst Blue Ribbon.
Bennett: Oh, they didn't make it - at home?
Bennett: Oh, he made Pabst: okay, he made beer as well.
Dunlop: He used to buy it in the stores and bring it home.
Woman: A mixture.
Bennett: And you would mix it.
Dunlop: Sure, make it, cook it and all.
Bennett: Where did you store this?
Dunlop: What, the beer?
Dunlop: It didn't take no storage on your stomach.
Bennett: Okay, you ate it right away, huh?
Dunlop: Never blew up - drank it pretty good.
Bennett: If something happened, a tragedy to another family in the neighborhood, what would your family do?
Dunlop: I don't remember anything like that. I can't remember that - just was sorry or something like that.
Bennett: Would she take food or something like that?
Dunlop: I don't remember being any tragedies like that – well in the powder when they blew up.
Bennett: Yeah, yeah. How about crimes, do you remember any crimes?
Dunlop: No, had no crimes that I can remember. I don't remember no crimes.
Bennett: How about tuberculosis?
Dunlop: Yeah, that was around.
Bennett: A lot of it?
Dunlop: A good bit of it.
Bennett: In your kitchen, we talked about it different times, you said it was a big room, would you tell me, did you have a kitchen table and chairs in that room?
Dunlop: I think they did have a table.
Woman: She had a table to work on.
Bennett: A work table because you did say you ate in the dining room.
Dunlop: It was a wooden one, yeah.
Bennett: What else did you have in the kitchen, you had the big cupboard, you had a table, stove, what else?
Woman: I don't remember much else.
Bennett: Ice box?
Woman: Ice box, yeah.
Dunlop: Yeah, an ice box.
Woman: When we were talking about the ice box, almost everybody had a box outside of their house in the wintertime. Nobody bought ice in the wintertime.
Bennett: With those window boxes?
Woman: Yes, yes, we had a great big one. We had a back porch and we had a great big one out on the back where we would keep meat, butter and eggs and milk, stuff like that. We never no bought no ice in there in the wintertime.
Dunlop: It was cold them days. We used to put the chicken and everything outside to freeze - hang them up on the second story window. Times have changed you'd be afraid to eat if you done that today – we’ re living on borrowed time with these chemicals floating around and everything.
Bennett: Well, there's a lot of it, that's for sure, yeah. Did you have a lamp in your kitchen, over the table, or how did you light the kitchen?
Dunlop: We had that oil lamp that I told you about, it was about that tall and about that big and it brightened up the whole - that was in the dining room. Then we had the lamp in the kitchen, but we wasn't so long getting electric out here. Your uncle come out and put electric in for us, he was an electrician in them days – was rare. I think he was the one that come out: no...
Woman: Uncle Andy?
Bennett: Was you - did you have a parlor and a living room?
Dunlop: Yep, we had both.
Bennett: What did you have in the parlor?
Dunlop: Parlor suit.
Woman: Parlor suit - it was horsehair, you know, they made it, everything was horsehair. But in the, what we called the sitting room, you'd have like leather furniture, a sofa and chairs, things like that.
Dunlop: About three pieces is about all.
Woman: Yeah, it got used more than the living room.
Bennett: The living room.
Woman: Very seldom got - well they called it the parlor.
Bennett: What else was in the parlor beside the...
Woman: They had a table that the Bible was on, that's all I can remember.
Bennett: Any pictures?
Woman: Yes, there were pictures, his mother had a lot of pictures.
Bennett: On the walls?
Woman: Her family pictures - portraits.
Bennett: Did they have little covers - crocheted covers?
Woman: No.- Nothing like that - well, what did you have, then, in the living room that you - you had the leather furniture...
Woman: What you called the sitting room?
Bennett: The sitting room, okay.
Woman: But the other room was called a parlor.
Bennett: But in the sitting room you had lamps as well?
Woman: Oh, yeah, you had a lamp.
Bennett: And this was really where the family lived?
Woman: Yes, most of the time, yes.
Bennett: About how many chairs would you have in there?
Woman: Most of the time they stayed in the dining room. It was a big dining room where they ate, and a stove was in there and most of the time they were in there. And that's where I remember the piano being, they had a piano in there too.
Dunlop: That's a big room too, because Mother at one time, I don't know if it's on the other tape or not, she had boarders during the war, First World War, and she had 11:00 to 7:00, 7:00 to 3:00: she took three – she had nine boarders at one time. When we sat down, we sat down with the three boarders, myself and my nephew, my Father and Mother, so you can figure it was pretty good size. It had the chairs there.
Bennett: Where did the boarders sleep?
Dunlop: I don't know about that, I couldn't say that one. If she did, she had plenty of work to do, I don't know about that one.
Bennett: How about if your house needed repair, who took care of that?
Dunlop: I don't remember the house getting repaired much at all, never did need repairing that I know of. If it did, my Daddy would do something like that.
Bennett: When it came to decorating the house, did you have painted walls or papered walls?
Dunlop: They were painted.
Woman: Some of them were papered.
Dunlop: Some were painted and some were papered.
Bennett: Who would do that?
Dunlop: I know Dad didn't do it, I don't know who done it. He like done the painting, I don't know.
Woman: I don't remember either.
Bennett: Probably had it - hired a paperhanger or something like that.
Dunlop: Well, that what you had to do them days, course a lot of the old-timers could paperhang pretty good.
Bennett: We did discuss the socks and you said your mother darned, you remembered that she darned socks –
Dunlop: Yes, she darned socks.
Bennett: Where did she sit when she did this, was she in the parlor or the dining room?
Woman: It would be in the dining room in a big chair. They had a big, what they called a Morris chair, and that's where she would sit and darn.