Interview with Richard Toy, 1984 August 16 [audio]
- Discussing records Mr. Toy has on the genealogy of Daniel Toy, born in Ireland and died in Henry Clay, and his familyKeywords: Bauduy, Victorine du Pont, 1792-1861; Brandywine Manufacturers' Sunday School; Emigration and immigration; family history; Genealogy; Irish immigrants; records and manuscriptsTranscript: Scott: This is Dick Scott, Hagley Volunteer, it is now 16 August, 1984, I am with Mr. and Mrs. Richard Toy in Limestone Acres and we're gonna talk about Mary Toy. These are Mary's records, oh my gosh, a fancy genealogical thing, for Heaven's sake, yeah. Well, somebody did a lot of work on this, didn't they?
Mr. Toy: Uncle Gene.
Scott: Uncle Gene did the work on this.
Mr. Toy: He had it done.
Scott: It starts off with Daniel Toy, born in Donegal, Ireland, in 1832 - no died in 1832, Henry Clay, Delaware. We don't know when he was born, then. It just says died. He married a Roseanna Coyle who was born in 1780 in Ireland and died in 1878 in Wilmington, Delaware. The children of that marriage - Daniel, Jr., born in 1828, in Henry Clay and died in 1861 in Henry Clay. Jane, born in 1822 in Henry Clay and died in 1909, Ann, born in 1821 in Henry Clay and died in 1896 in Henry Clay; Mary, born in 1826 in Henry Clay and died in 1885 in Henry Clay. I've got to check that out because I don't know what happened to them after she left the school. All right, Neil, born on January 1, 1813 in Donegal, Ireland, died on August 2, 1881 in Iowa; and James A., who was born in 1814 in Donegal and died in 1881 in Wilmington, Delaware. Now from James we have a complete chart and that's Chart No. 2. All righty, very interesting. Oh my, oh yes, Ann married Paul Bogan - Oh, I've got that, I've got that, wait a minute, hang on here. All right, this says from the receiving books of the Brandywine Manufacturers' Sunday School in April 1826, the 97th student to enter was a Nancy Toy, she was 6 years old - that's 1826, so that would have been 1820 or 1821, you're right.
Mr. Toy: 1820 - and she entered school in '26, in 1826 at the age of six. So, that's the Ann.
Scott: The daughter of Daniel Toy. Daniel Toy was a powder man, was a Catholic, lived at Hagley.
Mr. Toy: Who are you talking about - Ann?
Scott: Ann, yes.
Mr. Toy: She was born in '21, yes.
Scott: Yes, okay.
Mr. Toy: Well, at six years old, it would be '20 or '21.
Scott: She entered the seventh class, which is not the lowest class, but a fairly good class for a six year old to enter. She left in 1834 and it says here married to P. Bogan in 18 - it looks like 1832, and you have it down there, don't you?
Mr. Toy: Also, I don't have the date of the marriage. Paul Bogan was born in 1810. So, he was eleven years older than her.
Scott: Oh, yes, yes, that's right.
Mr. Toy: And he died in 1888. And they had...six children.
Scott: Six children. So this looks like they were married, P. Bogan, in 1832. See, it's 18 something 2, it looks like...
Mr. Toy: That'd be the year her father was killed.
Scott: That's right, that's right. See that's what mystified me, because I knew that Nancy, at least they recorded her name as Nancy here at the school, and when it came time to receive the inheritance, there was no Nancy, but there was an Ann and I thought, well maybe Nancy married somebody that Daniel didn't like and he cut her off, or something like that - I don't know, but that's interesting.
Mr. Toy: She was only six when he was...no...
Scott: No, she was eleven when he died, cause he died in '32.
Mr. Toy: Died in '32, she was eleven when he died, so she wasn't married, you know what I mean...
Scott: Well, we don't have the exact month that she married, here, but he died in August so...
Mr. Toy: But they stayed down in the creek, Bogans.
Scott: Oh, did they?
Mr. Toy: Yeah, now they opened a store with my - her brother, James, sold 'em.
Scott: I'll bet her name was Nancy Ann and she went by Ann later on.
Mr. Toy: Must have been because there's no Nancy and the dates jive. Mary was five years younger than her, she was born in 1826.
Scott: That's right, in the spring of 1826. Yeah. As near as I can tell 'cause she was 4 and a half years old when she entered the Sunday School in the fall...
Mr. Toy: And Daniel, Jr. was born in '28, 1828.
Scott: I have some trouble with his birth date. It's hard for me to go back...So they lived in...
Mr. Toy: Yeah, they run a store. I have information here someplace that - James selling the store to Bogan and the location.
Scott: Uh-huh - so they stayed in Henry Clay. So yours actually starts with Daniel, doesn't it?
Mr. Toy: Yes.
Scott: We don't know anything more about him in Ireland at all except that he came here.
Mrs. Toy: They said that the records were burned in a fire. Which was common - if anything is missing, they say it was burned.
Scott: Yeah, yeah, Now I have - gonna read you another one here. This is an Ann Toy who entered the school in 1829 at age eleven, but her father was John Toy, do you have any John Toy? I was just wondering if that was a brother of Daniel, we don't know that, though, do we? He was a laborer, he was a Catholic, he lived at Irons, which is up on Squirrel Run, fellow by the name of Irons had a mill up there. I can't read what they've written here - this is Victorine's writing and I - oh, gone to Philadelphia in October 1830, so that Ann Toy, that we have listed here, daughter of John Toy, left in 1830.
Mr. Toy: Left in 1830. You know that name wasn't that common, you know - he must have been a brother, then, he must have come over...
Mrs. Toy: In fact, when we were growing up, the name Toy was all related, now there are people we do not know who they are or where they came from. I understand that some people with longer names, shortened them to Toy.
Scott: Shortened them to Toy, sure, I wouldn't be a bit surprised. All right, let's see what we have here for the Toy family. Let me look at your chart, here, 'cause I must might read some more of this and then I can write it all off later on. All right, Ann Toy, married Paul Bogan, B-O-G-A-N who was born in 1810 and died in 1888; Mary Toy married James McKenna who was born in 1820 and died in 1863; Neil Toy married Rebecca Rusk - R-U-S-K, and it looks like they were married on 10-29-1823, or I guess that's when he was born - or she was born, that's when she was born, I guess and she died on 7-9-1886 in Iowa, so Neil and she went out to Iowa. Mary Toy and James McKenna had one, two, three, four, five children - John 1852 to 1912; Daniel - James - Carolyn - no dates - Mary Ann, born on 7-4-1854 in Henry Clay and died 12-8-1930 in Mt. Vernon, New York. Mary Ann married Patrick Mallory - M-A-L-L-O-R-Y, no dates. John Toy married Catherine Donohue - D-O-N-O-H-U-E. Rose - the wrong Rose. That's all we know about who the children of Mary and James McKenna - but we don't know about Daniel, James, and Carolyn...
Mr. Toy: ...Mary Ann married Patrick Mallory and they had eight children...It seems that's the only one they were able to trace.
Scott: Yes, well they trace John.
Mr. Toy: Yeah, they must have died - Daniel, James and Carolyn must have died in infancy, or something, because there's nothing on...
Scott: That's a good possibility, yeah.
Scott: Catherine Donohue and John Toy, had, let's see, Lewis, James, Eugene, Paul, Charles and Joseph, who were twins, and William - well, that's a pretty good-sized family.
Mr. Toy: Lewis - Lewis and James was the only ones...
Scott: That you have any information on about marriage. Well, we're getting a little bit away from...
- Discussing information on Daniel Toy and his grandson, Thomas Toy, and family found in Runk's Biographical and Genealogical History of the State of Delaware, 1889Keywords: Cathedral of Saint Peter Cemetery; Cemeteries; Census; Company; E.I. du Pont de Nemours & amp; explosions; family history; Genealogy; Gunpowder industry; Landlords; Leases; Political participation; Political parties; Raskob, John J. (John Jakob), 1879-1950; St. Joseph on the Brandywine Roman Catholic Church Yard; Tax collection; TeamstersTranscript: Mrs. Toy: We have reference to Ann here.
Scott: Oh, do you?
Mrs. Toy: This was [credited Loy?], in the book that this was taken from, but it is the Toy family. It said that Ann married Bogan.
Scott: Oh great - let me read this. That's Runk's Biographical and Genealogical History of the State of Delaware, 1889, and it says, "Thomas Loy, but it's supposed to be Toy, Post Office, I guess, or P. O. Henry Clay, New Castle County, Delaware, son of James and Ann Curen Toy, was born in Christiana Hundred, New Castle, Delaware on February 15, 1855. His grandfather, Daniel Toy, was born in Ireland, but came to this Country when a young man. He found employment first in Philadelphia - great - and in 1817 he came to Delaware and settled on the banks of the Brandywine." Now that's interesting, 'cause I don't have any time until 1820. "For fifteen years he was employed in the DuPont Powder Mills and 1832 met his death there in the explosion of the dust mill. He was a Republican, or anti-Federalist, and afterwards a Democrat. Daniel Toy was married to Roseanna Coyle of Donegal, Ireland. Their children were (1) Neil, (2) James, (3) Elizabeth, (4) Ann, Mrs. Paul Bogan, (5) Jane, (6) Mary, Mrs. James McKenna, and (7) Daniel, who was age 2." Daniel, II? And this says, "All are deceased." Now wait a minute, something's wrong. Died in February, 1855, and Mary lasted longer than 1855, so I don't know about this, I don't understand that. Sixth was Mary, Mrs. James McKenna, and seven, Daniel, Roman numeral two after that, semi-colon, all are deceased. Now Mary lived till what?
Mr. Toy: Mary, 1885, 2-85...track her after she went to Iowa...
Scott: I don't know - "Mr. Toy was a member a member of the Roman Catholic Church, and was buried in St. Peter's Church Yard in Wilmington. His widow lived to be 100 years old and died in Christiana Hundred. She was buried in the church yard of St. Joseph's Roman Catholic Church on the Brandywine." I've got to go check those tombstones now.
Mrs. Toy: You'll find some things missing there, too.
Scott: Oh, I'm sure.
Mrs. Toy: Well, what happened is that many of the old grave sites have been resold, and of course we have no titles to them, so - they're lost.
Scott: Oh, very interesting. Do they old records in them, do you know?
Mrs. Toy: Well, I don't know. We didn't pursue it because...
Mr. Toy: I had no proof - there's pictures around here, you know, like my father was looking at the graveyard and took a picture, you know. Now, the whole thing up there - it's a mess. James Toy has the tallest statue in St. Joseph's graveyard.
Scott: Is that right?
Mr. Toy: Over in the church yard - not in the new yard, you know, over on Hallock's side, over in the church yard. You go in and you'll see a high monument...
Scott: So the older people are buried over by the church and the new ones over by Hallock?
Mr. Toy: Yeah.
Scott: Oh, good, okay - that's good to know, 'cause I was thinking the old ones might be the original burial yard, but it's not.
Mr. Toy: No, church yard...
Mr. Toy: But when you stand and look at the church...
Mrs. Toy: Right in front of the Rectory.
Mr. Toy: Right in front of the Rectory - this high spear - all down that row are Toy's buried. Then Benson...and then right in the middle of that is Colonel [Hollingwood?], who died in 1950...
Mrs. Toy: Forty.
Mr. Toy: No, no - after that, because he bought grandma's house. Then over on the side, which doesn't have anything to do with what we are talking about now, my Grandmother Toy, Nathalie, mother and father had a - what do you call them?
Mrs. Toy: Crypt.
Scott: Oh, I've heard of them.
Mrs. Toy: But, that has nothing to do with the Toy family.
Mr. Toy: Raskob is buried in it now - John J. Raskob. When you go down the side of the church, standing looking at the church on the left-hand side, you go down there and here's this new mausoleum - what John J. Raskob wanted. Well, my great-great-grandmother on my grandmother's side and all are buried there, or were buried there. Now John Raskos there, but we have no deeds or anything. My Aunt had the deed and she stopped the sale of it once - they were selling to [Bill?] Cullen, and she went up and raised heck and got it stopped, but then after she died, we had - I never seen anything to it and now Raskos there. Now, there was no ground up there for sale.
Scott: I just figured out why this says, "all are deceased" - we're looking at the date of February 15, 1855 - that was when Thomas Toy was born - it doesn't say here when he was died - when he died, so I'm gonna have to read the rest of this to see if we can find out what the date is. "James Toy, father of Thomas Toy, was born in Christiana Hundred and there received his early education. In Philadelphia he learned carpentry and worked at that trade for several years. Returning to Christiana Hundred, he established a general store on the du Pont Banks and conducted it until 1857, when he purchased a tract of land in Christiana Hundred and engaged in farming."
Mr. Toy: That's up on the Pike.
Scott: Yeah. "Having employed at the same time as a teamster for the DuPont Power Works." Having employment at the same time. "He was widely and favorably known. He was a Democrat, but never aspired to office nor interested himself in the campaigns, except to cast his ballot. James Toy was married to Ann Curren, a native of Halifax, England. They had children: (1) Daniel, 3, died in 1877, (2) Thomas, (3) Martha J. (Mrs. John Darren of Wilmington), (4) a child who died in infancy. Mrs. Ann Toy died in 1849 and was buried at St. Joseph's church yard. Mr. Toy married his second wife, Bridget McCallen." That's your great-grandmother. "Their children are: (1) Catherine, Mrs. John [Nickoweth?], widow, (2) Neil J., and (3) James." Okay, all right, that's - James died in infancy, it says here, "(2)", must be two years old, "twins, deceased, Joseph A., E. Henry J."
Mr. Toy: He moved to California and died a millionaire.
Scott: Did he really? "(6) James, 3, who died young, (7) Rose, died young, (8) James, 4, (9) Eugene I., (10) Owen, (11) Mary, who died young. Mr. Toy died on January 3, 1881. Mrs. Bridget Toy is also deceased. Both were buried in St. Joseph's Roman Catholic Church Yard. Mr. Toy was a consistent member of St. Joseph's Church. Thomas Toy attended the public schools of Christiana Hundred and worked at home with his father, assisting him as a teamster until 1869 when he began a long and successful career as a landlord. He leased the Jefferson House at the DuPont Banks and for 29 years has conducted it to the satisfaction of the traveling public and his own credit and emolument. He is genial, liberal and a firm friend. During the Civil War he was a member of an emergency company in Delaware. Mr. Toy has always taken a lively interest in politics and his friends have ultimately rewarded his fidelity to the Party and recognized his executive ability by electing him to office. He was a tax collector of Christiana Hundred in 1880, 1881 and 1884. In 1880 he was United States Census Enumerator." Oh, that's interesting 'cause he took the 1880 census - look at that and see what his handwriting was like. "In 1884 he was elected a Levy Court Commissioner from New Castle County and served as such for four years. In 1896 he was a candidate for a member of the Constitutional Convention. Mr. Toy has been a lifelong Democrat and for sixteen years has been a member of the County Executive Committee of this Party. In 1867 Thomas Toy was married to Mary Elwood, born in County Waterford, Ireland. Their children are: (1) Ann, Mrs. William Gunn, deceased, (2) Elizabeth, died young, (3) Elwood N., at home, (4) Rose A., Mrs. George Frizzell (Frizzell, not Pritzel - Frizzell Store), (5) Ida May, Mrs. Edwin Johnson of Wilmington, and (6) Daniel Henry, at school, (7) Charlotte, (8) Thomas C., died young. Mr. Toy is a member of the Roman Catholic Church." That's a very good write-up.
- Reading the 1873 authorization of Thomas Toy's tavern; additional details on the life of Daniel Toy and the residence of James A. ToyKeywords: Bars (Drinking establishments); Henry Clay (Del. : Village)--Buildings, structures, etc.; Hotelkeepers; Leases; Stoeckles Lager Beer; Taverns (Inns); Toy's Tavern (William Penn Hotel)Transcript: Mr. Toy: Now here is when he [Thomas Toy] bought the William Penn.
Scott: Oh, okay, my gosh you've got - The Berks of Peace from New Castle County in the State of Delaware - "We, the under signers, freeholders of Christiana Hundred, do hereby certify that Thomas Toy, who was an applicant to Keith Tavern at William Penn in the..." I can't read it.
Mr. Toy: I think it says "hundred".
Scott: Oh - in the, yeah, looks like Hd., yes it does - "said, in the said" ... "tavern at William Penn in the said hundred, has beds, bedding and other furniture in said house suitable for public accommodation, and that said house is in a proper and convenient place and stage for the entertainment of travelers." Great! And these are, "we the undersigned freeholders," oh my golly, look at all the names - Paul Bogan is one of them, Hugh Holland, James, John Wood, Patrick Thornton, James Toy, Peter Collins - see if there's any other names I recognize off of here...
Mr. Toy: Bogan's on here.
Scott: Yes, Paul Bogan is the first one up here.
Mr. Toy: [Aldridge?], you ought to know that name, they were down there.
Scott: I was looking for names that we're working on here in our school. "I do solemnly" - I guess this word is "swear," I'm not sure, I don't know what that word is, "that the above signers are freeholds and residents of the Christiana Hundred, and will have necessaries suitable for travelers and that said house is necessary for public accommodation and is a proper, convenient place and stage for the entertainment of travelers. Sworn and subscribed before M. A." - can't read the last name - "this 30th day of August of 1873", and signed by Thomas Toy. How about that?
Mr. Toy: That's when he applied for - you know - keep the tavern.
Scott: Uh-huh, mm-huh, mm-huh. Toy's Tavern.
Mr. Toy: There's the tavern.
Scott: Oh, that's a picture of it. All right, is a picture of a three-story building...
Mr. Toy: That's still standing down there. Young Lammot du Pont just bought it and had it all refurbished...
Scott: Two large windows on either side on the ground floor with a door, double door, a porch out front with four pillars, sign saying, "Stoeckles Lager Beer" - both of them on each of the columns - there's a bench on the right hand side as we are looking at it - there are two more floors above it, all shuttered, sloping roof, sloping toward the front, cannon balls on top of the balustrade across here above the first floor - you've got a lot of information here.
Mrs. Toy: When our children were in school and they were researching their roots - remember when everyone was doing that? The teacher expressed amazement that our children had so much...
Scott: Oh, yes, it is quite amazing. The genealogical chart of the Toy family from Daniel Toy. Preface: "The accompanying diagrammatic chart is a genealogical record of the Toy family, descending from Daniel Toy. The information for the compilation of this chart was obtained from members of the various families and records from their Bibles. Daniel Toy came to America from Donegal, Ireland, in the year 1818 and settled on the famed Brandywine Creek in the section known as Henry Clay Factory near the City of Wilmington, Delaware. He was employed by the DuPont Powder Company and met his death in the explosion of the Powder Mill in the year 1832. He was buried in St. Peter's Cemetery in the City of Wilmington. The early history of the family was centered in and around Henry Clay Factory and Wilmington. The house in which Daniel Toy lived in Henry Clay was located opposite Bogan's Store. The residence of James A. Toy, known as the Old Homestead on the Pike, was located on the Kennett Pike near the Rising Sun Lane in the District known as the Christiana Hundred. The city limits of Wilmington now extend to Rising Sun Lane and take in this particular section. Where the street, Tower Road, intersects with Pennsylvania Avenue, marks the location of the Old Homestead and at this writing the residents, Mrs. J. A. Baker, marks the exact spot where the old home stood." Oh, the Baker home is there now.
Mr. Toy: Yes. I can remember that the bridge coming across there, too...that must be right.
Scott: "Rising Sun Lane leads East from Pennsylvania Avenue to the Old Kennett Pike down to the valley along the Brandywine Creek to the settlement known as the Henry Clay Factory, referred to in the charts as H.C. In general, this section is commonly called the Brandywine. It was in this section the du Ponts got deeds to their first tract of land in 1802 to manufacture gun powder. James A. Toy and many of his family are buried in St. Joseph's cemetery near Henry Clay." Well, now, that's interesting. You know, this says he came in 1818 - the other one says he came in 1817, and I don't have him starting with the Company until 1820.
Mr. Toy: Well, it says he stopped in Philadelphia - worked Philadelphia, then came here in 1818, that's what...
Scott: Yeah, yeah.
Mrs. Toy: I've got a note here that says that in that incorrect Loy instead of Toy - Thomas' birthday is incorrect - you want to make some comment on that?
Scott: I didn't know that - I was thinking that was his death date. See, we don't know when that, when that is dated - that thing there, it doesn't say. Very, very neat.
Mr. Toy: Are Thomas' birth date on there?
Mrs. Toy: I have Mary's note that it was incorrect, but I have no correct date on it.
Scott: John Toy was born in 1855 according to that, so he would be down in here because he comes along later than...
Mr. Toy: 1855 - he should be in...that's James...
Scott: Oh, that's James, all right, yeah, yeah.
Mr. Toy: John Thomas - was that him?
Scott: What's the date on it?
Mr. Toy: 18 -
Scott: Gee, have to get your magnifying glass out.
Mr. Toy: 1844.
Scott: It says 1855 on that newspaper article is when he was born.
Mr. Toy: Tom was Daniel's son - Tom and Daniel run together...Tom was James' son - he's Charlotte's father...
Scott: Yeah, here's Charlotte, so then that is John Thomas, and it does say 2-13-1844 in Wilmington and died in 7-7-1919 - you see we don't have a date on that.
Mr. Toy: 1919 is approximately right because my father used to stop and shave him two and three times a week when he was...
Scott: Oh, is that right?
Mr. Toy: Yeah, an old man. Tom was the one that run the store.
Scott: Yep, yeah, Tom Toy Store, I remember talking about that...The name was James Thomas.
Mr. Toy: Well, they would be one hundred...
- Richard's place on the family tree, particularly relating to his grandfather, James A. Toy (1814-1881)Keywords:Transcript: Scott: Boy, you go - we're way down in here, don't we. Yeah, we go down to - see some dates here - 1930, 1938, 1940, when they were born - some more - 1931. Where are you on this chart?
Mr. Toy: Me, I am...
Scott: Richard E., 1922 in Wilmington.
Mrs. Toy: We've had copies made with this blocked out and...[crosstalk]
Mr. Toy: My mother wrote these in by hand.
Scott: I know, I know.
Mrs. Toy: Never knowing that the family was going to grow as it has.
Mr. Toy: I blocked them out - made a copy someplace here.
Scott: It's amazing how - how the families do grow, doesn't it?
Mrs. Toy: Here's a fresh sheet here.
Mr. Toy: Let's see here...
Mrs. Toy: We had better hurry.
Scott: No, you've got some time - just sit down and try to - try to do it, I guess. Oh, I know, I know. That's quite a a family tree - that's a lot of information.
Mr. Toy: Well, what I intend to do is...
Scott: You have to make your own start with you...
Mr. Toy: Yeah, yeah.
Scott: And work down to your family so that your kids would have that and then they can trace it back as far as they want.
Mr. Toy: My brother started some of this, then he died, and you know, it's hard to keep track of people today because families don't stay together. You see, you don't see nothing about no divorces or anything in here, you know - now...
Mrs. Toy: Here are some things where I have crossed out Thomas and written John, but why I don't know...
Scott: So you had a sister, Frances, a brother James, a brother John, a sister Hazel, a brother Henry, and a brother Robert.
Mr. Toy: All dead but Aunt Hazel.
Scott: Is that right?
Mrs. Toy: Yes.
Scott: And Hazel was named after your mother?
Mr. Toy: Yes, Hazel. Her name now is Rowe. Hazel Rowe. She married [James?...] He died very young...
Scott: Your father's name was J. Francis and he is the son of Anna McLear.
Mrs. Toy: MacAwee.
Scott: MacAwee? Says McLear.
Mr. Toy: That's [?]'s wife. But it's all MacAwee - we changed that - was my grandfather - that's my grandmother.
Scott: Oh, I see, I'm following the wrong -
Mr. Toy: [Inaudible]
Scott: Wait a minute, wait a minute. This says, "James Frances is the son of Eugene" - no, no, I'm sorry - that's the line continued - "Elizabeth MacAwee and James F." Right, right. And they are the children of Bridget McCallin and James A. Toy, who was Mary's brother. Very interesting. Well, I found out some more information about Mary's father which is interesting.
Mr. Toy: Now, here's something on Neil.
Scott: That would be Mary's brother. February 4, 1867, Neil Toy and his wife, Rebecca of Wilmington to J.T. of Christiana Hundred - whatever J.T. of Christiana Hundred was - James Toy, all right, three-story brick house on the property.
Mrs. Toy: John Thomas.
Scott: Toy. We were just talking about that. Born in 1844, yeah, and that write-up said 1855, didn't it? Father was James A. and mother was Ann Curren. Pierce Atlas of Delaware shows J. Toy Hotel of 1800's - That Pierce Atlas was apparently a very good thing.
Mrs. Toy: Yes, I went in to - where the old Artisan's Bank is - and I copied this from it at the time. I thought it was interesting, this doctor...[inaudible]...officiated my sister's birth.
Scott: Oh yeah, uh-huh, uh-huh.
Mrs. Toy: He had donated the book.
Scott: Historical Society - I'll go up to the Historical Society and see what I can find, too.
Mrs. Toy: Each time something like this occurs - like what you are doing now...
Mrs. Toy: Revives our interest.
Scott: Oh, that's right - I could tell - his - talking on the phone, I could tell that he was interested.
Mr. Toy: But you know you have so many directions to go. You're pursuing one, Mary - I pursue...
Scott: You have to pursue them all.
Mrs. Toy: It's mind boggling for us, I mean, we started from - we really don't know how to go, until we finally just sorta...
Mr. Toy: This is the last bunch you're gonna be able keep track of because I know two brothers that are divorced.
Scott: Yeah, yeah.
Mr. Toy: The children were raised by their mothers, and I never got into it because I always said there was two sides to a story and it was no use siding with my brother, but then we lost contact with the children, you know what I mean. I've got two nephews that I don't think - I haven't seen for twenty years, if they'd come in here now, I wouldn't know them. And I don't think they are a bit interested in the Toy side of the family, you know, being raised by the mothers.
Scott: Yes, that's true.
Mr. Toy: And it's gone - anybody who's gonna try to keep their family and trace it like we're doing now, is out of luck from this generation on - people just don't...
Scott: But you've got an awful good record here, and your children will at least have that as far back as they want to go, and you can't worry about the rest of them.
Mr. Toy: No, I can't go forward, but like I say, it's going to be tough, because I have two brothers who are divorced today - I don't know them children at all.
Scott: Well, we don't have a heck of a lot on Mary. Do you know anything about James McKenna that she married?
Mr. Toy: No, don't have anything but what that line was. It seems that that was the end of that.
Scott: Well, where's Daniel Toy again?
Mr. Toy: Daniel - he's on the backside of here.
Scott: Is he on the backside of that - just turn it over and there he is? Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, I didn't realize that. All right, the only thing we have on Mary Toy here is that she married James McKenna and we have a list of her children and we can trace them down a little bit here. Let's see, Mary Ann married Patrick Mallory and they had Mary Jane, William H., Ellen E., Ann Marie, Thomas C., Elizabeth T., James P. and John Joseph. Boy that's a lot of children, isn't it? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight children. Now, let's see, Rose came down, and, oh my - trying to see if there is anybody that's - Elmer Toy.
Mr. Toy: I think you'll find they're in California...
Scott: Robert Doyle Toy, Jr. - William C. Toy - I was just trying to see if there is anything that we could get today that would go back into one of the McKennas. Let's see - John Ketrick - Catherine Donohue, they had Louis, James, Eugene, Paul, Charles, Joseph and William, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven of them.
Mr. Toy: Somebody got a letter from a Toy in Ohio, Helen. [crosstalk]
Mrs. Toy: Someone was researching their family, and had come up with the name, James Toy....and I don't think she even bothered answering it.
- Speculation on James and Mary (Toy) McKenna and discussion of local cemeteries, including at St. Joseph on the Brandywine Catholic ChurchKeywords: Brandywine Manufacturers' Sunday School; Cathedral of St Peter (Wilmington, Del.); cemeteries; common graves; McKenna, James, 1820-1863; McKenna, Mary Toy, 1826-1885; millwrightsTranscript: Scott: Well, there was a Donald L. Toy born in Wilmington in 1837, and a John T. in 18 - I'm sorry, 1937, and one born in 1931 in Wilmington, and Robert L. in '34 in Wilmington, and they were descendants of Louis and Ann who were descendants of John, who was James and Mary's son. Well, at least I found out when Mary died, didn't have that before, and that she died in Henry Clay. So, I've got to find out what James McKenna did in Henry Clay because they stayed in this area. Now I have some James McKenna's working for the DuPont Company, but I'm really confused there because James McKenna started in the Brandywine Manufacturers' Sunday School in 1831 and left in 1833 and I assume that it's his father, James, instead of working for the Company about that same time, but then I cannot follow James McKenna other than to say that he was a machine maker - now let's see if I can find James McKenna in the register of the books because I think that's where it tells me he was a machine maker.
Mr. Toy: Now this James McKenna was born in 1820...He was six years older than Mary.
Scott: All right, James McKenna we do know went to the Brandywine Manufacturers' Sunday School. On October 16, 1831 he entered. He was the son of James McKenna, he was 7 years old. So I had him born in 1824 - you say he was born in 1820?
Mr. Toy: 1820 it says here.
Scott: Well, that's interesting, cause he was 7, according to this in 1831, so that makes him born in 1824. Very interesting here [inaudible]. He left in 1833, worked as a millwright, married Mary Toy in 1849 - let's see, I don't know where he worked in the millwright. They had millwrights at Hagley at that time, but I don't have him - I don't have any record of his employment for the DuPont's, so I'm gonna have to try to dig around and find something on him. He could have been a millwright downtown too, 'cause they had machine shops all over in those days. This is really interesting. I'm glad to know where Daniel's buried, 'cause I want to go down and see that.
Mrs. Toy: I'd like to see that myself, I've never seen it - I've only heard of it through the years.
Mr. Toy: My results show as if he was born in a common grave.
Mrs. Toy: Buried.
Mr. Toy: Yeah, what did I say - buried in a common grave.
Scott: Have you been down to see it?
Mr. Toy: I must have been. I can remember going into the graveyard with my mother, but I don't remember, you know - now up the creek, yeah, I've been over all those graves up there up in St. Joseph's.
Mrs. Toy: But Dick said, you know where St. Peter's Church is now, well he said that he thinks that the grave site is catty-corner from the church. I have never seen it, but his mother told me that it was in the back of the church, in like a little private courtyard that you entered through a private gate, and you had to have permission to get in there. So I don't know which of us is remembering right, you know, maybe...
Mr. Toy: I couldn't say. I always had it in my mind that it was catty-cornered from the church - northeast Thirtieth, and it was in the side yard there, but I'm not sure of that.
Mrs. Toy: But at least it's at Sixth and West.
Scott: Yes, Sixth and West - I'll go in there someday and see...
Mr. Toy: And now I'm not sure it was just two being blown up and he's buried in a common grave.
Mrs. Toy: We were always told it was...
Scott: It may be a common grave of two people because they couldn't put the pieces together, you know.
Mr. Toy: Yeah, could be, but I was always under the impression it was more than one of them, but I guess I get mixed up with the stories my Dad told me, see he grew up down there and, of course, when there was an explosion, he said that everybody was out, you know, at the gates waiting to see...
Scott: Who was killed...
Mr. Toy: And I'm sure that he was there in the 1915 explosion because that would have made him - he was born in '91, and...
Scott: Made him 25 years old.
Mr. Toy: And he - but they always had relations working in the powder - I don't think my grandfather ever worked in the powder, I think he was scared to death of the powder. (Laughter) But my Dad worked in the powder - he worked in the powder in 1906 and 1907.
Mrs. Toy: This is the book that Dick asked had you seen - St. Joseph's.
Scott: Oh, St. Joseph's - yeah...
Mrs. Toy: You have that.
Scott: I think I have seen pictures from this and if I can - if I look through here and see that picture, I'm sure I will remember it because we had a demo - thing up there - Pius the 12th - its marked Bishop of Wilmington - William Raskob - there you go - Daniel Shields. Guess that's Shields Lumber. Joseph A. L. Errago.
Mr. Toy: Errago disgraced us [laughs].
Mrs. Toy: Yes, he did.
Scott: Oh, did he?
Mr. Toy: Yeah, he run off with the money from the...
Scott: Oh, something like that - but I don't pay any attention to those things. St. Mary's, Coffee Run - oh, this is a picture of the little church that was in Coffee Run.
Mr. Toy: Yeah, that's original.
Scott: Yeah, I thought that some of the - Since St. Joseph's wasn't started until 1841 - that Coffee Run might contain some of the old tombstones.
Mr. Toy: It might, yeah.
Scott: It's all grown up right there now - In February, 1841, the Catholic families of the Brandywine Valley, under the leadership of Peter M. Bennett and others resolved to build a church. They told us it was 1841.
Mr. Toy: Well, they tell me - I don't remember reading it - but they tell me that my grandfather dug the cellar with a horse and scoops for the church.
Scott: Is that right? Tom Toy was the son of the powder... [tape is switched]
- Discussing an historical Toy bottle Mr. Toy purchased; the 1964 oral history interview of James Toy, Richard's fatherKeywords: antique bottles; Liquor bottles--Collectors and collecting; Toy's TavernTranscript: Scott: Brandywine, Delaware - for Heaven’ s sakes.
Mr. Toy: Now, when they were excavating there, around where, you know where the new firehouse is on Second Street?
Scott: Yeah, yeah.
Mr. Toy: Right in that area - this guy, they call him the Arizona Kid, or whatever he is - he flies all over the world, he's got an airplane, must be a millionaire - he flew in here and dug - he found that bottle and he took it all the way to Arizona.
Scott: And you got it from him?
Mr. Toy: And I heard about it and I wrote to him, and he wrote back and told me the bottle was in good condition and he would guarantee delivery, you know, that it wouldn't be broken or anything, so I sent him a check for $175 and this is what I got.
Scott: Well, you got a Toy bottle, that's for sure.
Mrs. Toy: You got what you wanted.
Mr. Toy: This is, this is...
Scott: Toy and O'Neil...
Mr. Toy: This is James Toy...
Mr. Toy: Son - and he sent him down to Smyrna and they bottled the same...
Scott: What did they bottle in these?
Mr. Toy: Anything, I think.
Scott: Anything, huh.
Mrs. Toy: Mostly syrups, I'm sure.
Scott: The bottle is about six inches tall, one of them is a bluer color than the other one - one is relatively white, and not...
Mrs. Toy: That's a much newer bottle.
Scott: ...too big in diameter - yes, this is a - I don't know how they are made - they are both made in a mold, because you can see the lines here. They are a heavy glass bottle.
Mr. Toy: Yes, that there was under ground, I guess, for a hundred years - now I'm just guessin'.
Scott: Well, they used to throw the things away.
Mr. Toy: Yes, and he dug that out of the cistern there and he did tell me the name of the street. It's not Justison, it was another street that run in there, and - I have it written down someplace. But he - now there's another bottle that Dr. Prine, in Dover, has, that was found floating in the Susquehanna about eight - ten years ago.
Mrs. Toy: Ten years.
Mr. Toy: And he has two Toy bottles - and this bottle here, I don't know how common it is, but O'Neil went out of the business and Toy run it later for a few years.
Scott: They are excavating now on Blacksmith Hill and they are into the old well up by the Sunday School and they found lots of glass and stuff. I don't know if they found any bottles.
Mr. Toy: Well, my Dad found a bottle like this, but he found it up in the yard - oh, I guess 1925, 1926, and he brought it home, but it disappeared - nobody ever knew what happened to it.
Scott: Spring housecleaning and your mother probably said I don't want that old bottle around here. [crosstalk]
Mrs. Toy: No, they had a party and it disappeared and he accused one particular person - we don't know.
Mr. Toy: This is his interview.
Scott: Oh, yes, Norman Wilkinson, oh yeah, okay, all right that was way back when they first started out, yes.
Mr. Toy: [He lived down Long Row?]
Mrs. Toy: It's very amusing, you should read it.
Scott: I'm gonna get that and read it.
Mr. Toy: He worked at the DuPont Company from 1907 to 1908 in the glazing mills, driving a team of horses and loading powder cars and further on he starts talks about working in the separator.
Scott: Well, I can get that tape and listen to it and see, you know...
Mr. Toy: And he says here, I found a bottle - where was he? - "Years ago when I was cleaning out the old store office building and burning the stand-up desks and high stools, I found a bottle in there marked J. F. Toy Merchandise...but I lost it - I think some of my relatives liked it than I did. [laughter]...Pop said it like it was - he had no tact. [Miscellaneous comments as they are looking at James Toy's 1964 oral history interview]
Scott: That's a good thing to say, just tell it like it is...These are very interesting.
Mr. Toy: There was a man up there named Jim McVey - when he was done work at night, my father, he just left the horse, and every night there was a man by the name of Jim McVey, everyone left his horse tied and he picked them up and bring them up to the barn. He was a hosler, I guess, Pop just drove.
Scott: They did a lot of these with Norman Wilkinson in the early fifties and now we are going back and picking up other people who still lived - are still living - who lived in that area to find out how they actually lived because they were mostly interested in powder yards in the 1950's. So we are going back now interviewing people...
Mr. Toy: Yeah, they asked me what Henry Clay was like, but he never answered them - I don't know - Pop, you couldn't pin him down, you know what I mean, and he would go off on a tangent - I guess I do the same, too.
Scott: Well, we all do that.
- Mr. Toy's recollection of the houses at Long Row and the trolley route that ran in front of Long Row during his childhood in the late 1920sKeywords: Henry Clay (Del. : Village); Long Row; Mt. Salem United Methodist Church; Rising Sun Lane; Rockford Park (Wilmington, Del.); Street-railroads; Working class families--DwellingsTranscript: Mr. Toy: I know, I was down Henry Clay, and stayed down there and they were asking him what it was like and what the houses were like down Long Row. You went in off of Long Row and you had a living room, a dining room and a kitchen, and then when you got to the back of the house, you were below grade by about, I would say, seven feet.
Scott: Oh, is that right?
Mr. Toy: And then you went up a flight of stairs to the back yard out of the kitchen, and then that was even with the second floor. And then they had no inside plumbing, and they had an outhouse in the back, and a chicken house, dog houses, and everything.
Scott: Did you live on Long Row?
Mr. Toy: No, I never lived on Long Row, I stayed down there, I stayed down there - my - there's a picture - where's that picture of Aunt Kate? Back yard in Long Row. But my cousin, Grace Ferguson, it was Grace Toy - Neil's daughter, she lived down there until they tore them down, they had to go down and pull her out by the hair...
Scott: Oh, for Heaven’ s sake.
Mr. Toy: She fought them, she didn't want to leave. She was born and raised down there.
Scott: Well, that's the way it is when you live in a house like that - you want to...
Scott: And this is Aunt Kate in the backyard of her house.
Mr. Toy: Down Henry Clay, and that's the type...[laughs].
Scott: That was a wooden construction...
Mr. Toy: That could have been a chicken house, now they may have...
Scott: Yeah, it doesn't even look like there's a double wall there, it looks like there's boards on the inside...
Mr. Toy: Yeah, that was probably some shed or something in the backyard.
Scott: It looks like a shed, yeah.
Mr. Toy: But that was down in the backyard in Henry Clay. And they had little porches on them and the trolley cars run right past the porch, you had to pull your feet up to keep 'em from getting run over.
Scott: It was that close to the porch?
Mr. Toy: Oh yeah - naw, I'm teasing, because - it was close - it come down Rising Sun, no, it went up Rising Sun...
Scott: Went up Rising Sun...
Mr. Toy: It come across the back through the woods - when you come down to 17th and Rising Sun, then the trolley car cut across through the woods, in the back, and then come down - what's the name of the -
Scott: River Road, there, you mean?
Mr. Toy: Whatever Hallock's house faces.
Scott: Oh, you mean...
Mr. Toy: Not Squirrel Run - out on the road there...
Scott: Oh yeah, yeah - oh why can't I think of that road - it's Barley Mill Road.
Mr. Toy: Barley Mill Road - it come down Barley Mill Road and then - you know where the bridge is now - the high bridge, the new bridge?
Scott: Yes, Tyler McConnell Bridge.
Mr. Toy: Yeah, well it cut under there - it didn't come out and follow that road down - it cut across the field, and then it come in front of the C.I.D. house and then it come on down and come into Long Row, and Long Row had about six houses there, maybe eight, and they all had little front porches - and alongside each front porch was a coal box where you kept your coal for the winter. And the trolley run right in front of the house, and then the street was there. It run - like so many in those days, it was off to the side of the street, didn't run down the street.
Scott: Did it go up to Squirrel Run in those days?
Mr. Toy: No, then it cut across and went up alongside Toy's Tavern, and come out on Rising Sun Lane and back in town.
Scott: Well, where did it stop? Did it stop at Squirrel Run, did it go up to Squirrel Run in those days or just stop at Long Row?
Mr. Toy: It come down Barley Mill Road...
Scott: Oh, came down Barley Mill Road?
Mr. Toy: Yeah, come across the back - when you're lookin' - when you're down there now, we'll just say - you come down Rising Sun and you turn - or you go this way and go over the new bridge -
Scott: Right, right.
Mr. Toy: And then you come on down here, and we'll just for argument's sake say, Hagey's is here and then Toy's is here - the trolley went across the back...
Scott: Oh, behind those two...
Mr. Toy: And come down here, and we'll say the C.I.D. house is here, you know...just for argument's sake.
Scott: Oh, it went down on the other - oh, I see...
Mr. Toy: Then it come right through here and went right up through here.
Scott: Oh, so what you're saying is the trolley actually came across the fields...
Mr. Toy: Woods.
Scott: Through the woods, to Barley Mill Road, came down Barley Mill Road, turned at the C.I.D. House...
Mr. Toy: Yeah, and it cut across, it was - cut across - it didn't make it...
Scott: Right - it didn't make...
Mr. Toy: And it...
Scott: Went between Toy Tavern and Hagey and started back up the hill and back to Wilmington.
Mr. Toy: And then it went around, then when it got to Tower Hill, you know, at Tower - what'd I say - 17th Street - it went down 17th Street and you know where the church - what's the name of that church?
Mrs. Toy: By Rockford Park? I don't know the name.
Scott: Not Green Hill Presbyterian?
Mrs. Toy: I have no idea.
Mr. Toy: ...Back of...
Scott: Rock - Mt. Salem...
Mr. Toy: Mt. Salem.
Scott: Mt. Salem in Rockford Park, yep.
Mr. Toy: Yeah, Mt. Salem's here and when it got past there it cut across the fields and went down to...
Mrs. Toy: Cut the corner off.
Mr. Toy: Yeah - went right across the field, here, and the street went on down here, and this goes down - what is this, I don't know - Park Drive, I guess. And then it went on down in Delaware Avenue and 17th Street.
Mrs. Toy: I remember now - it went in - it went out 17th - in Delaware Avenue.
Mr. Toy: I remember the old trolleys coming along here - I was a kid, you know - you'd be sitting on the front porch here - I always kidded - said it would run over your feet. But it would stop almost any place along here and pick you up. They weren't particular.
Scott: At one time they came down along that River Road and went on up to Squirrel Run, and that's where the end of it was - it came back down. That must have been prior to this trolley. There was a lot of railroads up in there too - cause they took a lot of stuff into the DuPont area there.
Mr. Toy: Right down from Mrs. William K.'s is a trolley track...You know where - when you get up to the top of the hill here - let's see, where am I on this drawing here, when you get here - this is 17th Street, we'll just say, and then there's a low, gray wall goes along here, and that was Lammot du Pont's place. Well, right in here, there's a gate, where a path used to go - well, that's where the trolley went.
Scott: Oh, for Heaven’ s sake, I've seen that - you can see it today.
Mr. Toy: Yeah, and unless somebody cut it off - we used to walk through there - go down to Long Row - and you'd be in the backyards - you'd be right in the backyard.
Scott: Oh, for Heaven’ s sake - how about that.
- Toy family houses and other houses along Tower Road; wishing they had recorded Richard's father, James Toy, while he was still livingKeywords: Brinckle Avenue; Oral histories; Reminiscing; Street-railroads; Tower RoadTranscript: Mr. Toy: But you can still - and I haven't done it for years - but when we got off the trolley, we got off the trolley, yeah, we walked down. And of course, my people lived over here on 17th and Tower Road, and all the Toys lived along there - Uncle Gene and Aunt Annie and the whole bunch built houses there - they're tore down now. Ed Masters' house - it's at Tower Hill, it's on the corner of 17th and Tower Road.- And there was a row of houses - Tower Road run down like this, and it's at 17th Street, you know, here, and then this block was always vacant. Uncle Gene owned that and never built on it. But then there was Uncle Gene's house and Aunt Martha's house and three or four more row houses built down here. And Christy Connor bought this corner and built a big house and then my Grandfather had this corner and built a house here facing here.
Mrs. Toy: I thought we had a picture of Christy Connor's house.
Mr. Toy: And then - there is one there - and then there was no houses and Drapers come in here to the back of Pop's and there was always a carriage shed here.
Scott: Now you're talking about - this is, what street is this?
Mr. Toy: Tower Road.
Scott: That's Tower Road. And this is 17th - and what's this, this is 18th?
Mr. Toy: This would be - the 18th was never cut through - that's 15th.
Mr. Toy: Up towards Pennsylvania Avenue.
Scott: Oh, you're going up the hill, okay, towards Pennsylvania Avenue, so this would be 15th and Tower Road is where your Grandfather lived.
Mr. Toy: My Grandfather's number was [1530?]. That's Christy Connor's house.
Scott: Oh, u-huh.
Mr. Toy: That's my father when he was a young man.
Scott: Is that right?
Mr. Toy: Standing in the front yard.
Mrs. Toy: Here's another picture of him in the yard.
Scott: For Heaven’ s - that's a good picture.
Mr. Toy: [?]...and he's standing practically in the same spot. He was 20 - 19 when this was taken.
Scott: How about that - James F. Toy, 19 years old.
Mr. Toy: Now, he's standing in the same corner - Christy Connor built right there and that's the house Christy Connor built.
Scott: I'll be darned.
Mr. Toy: And that's after they put the fence around it, and now they got the hedge.
Scott: So this is a little older - yes, this was 1910 - Sunday, February 13, 1910, James F. Toy, age 19 years old. And this one we don't have a date on, but he's a little older than that - it's obvious.
Mr. Toy: And that's Christy Connor's house, the leather man. He had a leather factory down on...
Scott: Second and Market Streets - down along in there.
Mr. Toy: Yeah, Second and Market Streets.
Scott: Yeah, I remember...
Mr. Toy: What the heck was I saying about this?
Mrs. Toy: Braden.
Mr. Toy: Braden - His daughter married one of the du Ponts, trying to think which one it was, and they built him a house right here - almost in my Grandfather's backyard - belonged to Drapers - the old carriage shed and all set here. And then there was nothin' along here on the Pike. And then back of Grandpop's there was a row of houses here, went down to this street here - I can remember Brinckle Avenue. Trolley car went along Brinckle - when it come out Brinckle, then it turned and went down in from of where the kids play soccer and all, and then turned and went down Rising Sun Lane.
Scott: U-huh, u-huh, u-huh - that's interesting.
Mr. Toy: It was a great place out there. I'm trying to think...
Mrs. Toy: Dick and I sit many an evening reminiscence over things we remember when we were children, you know, when our grandparents had their homes...
Mr. Toy: I was born too late in life.
Mrs. Toy: We were both - we grew up a block from one another, therefore we knew just about all the same places.
Scott: I sort of wished that I had taken tape recorders down and let my mother and father record all that stuff. Maybe you are too, because your children, you know...
Mrs. Toy: We have talked about it, you know, when the children said, "Mom, write it down." I said, Gee, I really I don't know, I don't have enough ambition to write it all down.
Scott: Yes, it takes a lot of time - you've got to organize your thoughts, but if you just sit like we're doing here and chit chat into the thing - and that's picking it all up - I can go home tonight, now I can listen to this - I can take out what I want, and I can listen to it three weeks from now and something else will strike me and I'll write that down.
Mrs. Toy: We wish we had done it with Dick's father. Dick's father lived with us until he died and so many stories he told us we wish we could...
Mr. Toy: But you know there were things he would not...actually talk about, I don't know, and there was nothing to them, you know what I mean, there was no deep, dark secrets, but you'd ask him about something and he'd...
Mrs. Toy: You couldn't pin him down.
Mr. Toy: He wouldn't go into it, and it's just like when you read this interview you'll see where they asked him two or three times what the houses were like down in Long Row and what living was like and he'd go off on another tangent - he would never actually answer what it was like.
Mrs. Toy: I think we all do when we get older.
Mr. Toy: But I know he stayed down in the creek there - he lived there with Aunt Kate a few years in that same house - him and his father lived down there. But lots of times I would ask him about - you know, when he worked in the powder and stuff like that - and I would never get the right answer.
Scott: Well, maybe there were certain things he didn't want to talk about - maybe the powder was, you know, dangerous and he didn't like it and so why fool with it, you know.
Mr. Toy: Well, he would have stayed in the powder, I think, if it wasn't for one of the helpers, but I can't remember which one it was, and when he moved up into the powder, the Uncle told him, he said, "When you go home tonight, don't come back."
Scott: Is that right?
Mr. Toy: All you're going to do is get blown up there.
Scott: U-huh, u-huh.
Mr. Toy: And he told me that, you know, but then he says there that he used to be on call, that he wasn't a permanent employee, but if somebody didn't show up in the yard, they would send up and get him to come down in placement for the day.
Scott: Oh, u-huh, so he would work part time, then?
Mr. Toy: From what he says, you know.
- Discussing descendants of Mary and James McKenna attempting to find possible contacts; Mr. Toy's relationship with his Aunt Charlotte who lived in Henry ClayKeywords: family trees; genealogy; Henry Clay (Del. : Village)--Buildings, structures, etc; Toy's TavernTranscript: Scott: I'm having a lot of trouble putting all this together. You've certainly helped me with Mary and all of her family and so forth, so I'll be able to rewrite that whole portion of this thing, but I'm having trouble with the McKennas in tracking them down, as to find out where he worked and so forth.
Mr. Toy: Well, on that family tree, did you get anybody that might still be alive?
Scott: I've got the names on tape, there.
Mrs. Toy: Children, and then you can go from there.
Scott: Yes, some of them that were born in the 1830's, 1930's and maybe I can look in the phone book and find them, I don't know. I don't know if there are any of them still around here or not, but I'll see, you know.
Mr. Toy: Now, [Amos?] Great-grandmother, she was Charlotte's...
Scott: Let me see, let me see that again - that one that's down from J. - James I guess it is, because now that I think about it I've got to make sure I've got the right last names on - look them up in the phone book. I've got the children, and I just assumed they were Toys and they probably will not be Toys. Let me see what I've copied down here - this is Daniel, so it wouldn't be on that side - on this side - no, it must be on that side. Born in 1937, '31 - yeah, there's a John T. I assume they were Toys, 'cause let's see here...
Mrs. Toy: John T. was John Thomas Toy, remember on...
Mr. Toy: Yeah, but you've gotta be careful, I got mixed on there too, they called them John Thomas Toy MacLear, like, you know.
Mrs. Toy: Yeah, like your brother was in Warsaw.
Scott: I'm tracing these back - and they are, they are all Toys, they're Toys - so you would probably know if there were still - now wait a minute, wait a minute - these would be McKennas, 'cause Mary married McKenna, so all these names would be down through here - that's John, married a Catherine, so that's a McKenna, and this would be a Louis McKenna who married this and came down to a Francis, which is a boy, would have had Francis - who married a woman by the name of Frances - and they had John T., so these would be McKennas.
Mr. Toy: Yeah, they'd all be McKennas, see 'cause Mary was married out of the Toy family.
Scott: Yeah, yeah - so these would be Donald L., John T., and Robert L. McKenna were born in '37, 131 and '34. So if I can find McKennas in the phone book and call them up, I might be able to get some records of what happened to John McKenna - or James McKenna, rather. Because, you see, I don't know anything about him to speak of.
Mr. Toy: Now, Mary Ann married Peter, or Patrick Malloy, right? Mallory, you got - Mallory or Malloy?
Scott: Malloy, it looks like. Now there are Malloys around.
Mr. Toy: Yeah, but I know - and they had Ann Marie born...Avondale, Delaware.
Scott: Avondale - never heard of Avondale, Delaware.
Mr. Toy: Neither have I. And Thomas C. was born in Wilmington, what's that say - Avondale?
Scott: Wilmington - and died in Yonkers, New York. Born in Avon...
Mr. Toy: Yonkers, New York - Thomas C., born in Wilmington, died in Yonkers, New York. Mary Ann - Ellen E. married Thomas Flynn.
Scott: M-huh - we don't have any children from that marriage.
Mr. Toy: No, but you get children from Theresa Kramer?
Scott: Kramer, yeah. And William H. McKenna.
Mr. Toy: William H. They would be McKenna children and then they had...
Scott: They had daughters though - oh, here's a Cornelius, but he was born in 1915. The rest of those were all women and they'd be harder to trace down. The ones that I looked up were men from the Louis-Frances McKennas, and their last name, I hope, would be McKenna, 'cause if you trace a girl down, I mean you're gonna have a terrible time finding out who she married unless...
Mrs. Toy: Well, you have quite a few McKennas in here.
Scott: Yeah, I'm sure - do you have a Donald L.? Now here's...
Mrs. Toy: Donald S.
Mr. Toy: What is this...look up Theresa P.
Scott: Theresa P.?
Mr. Toy: McKenna. And she married Raymond...
Mr. Toy: Simpson, and they had a kid named Rayford...
Scott: Raymond Simpson, Jr. looks like - Raymond, Jr., born in 1932 in New York City.
Mr. Toy: Oh, he's in New York City.
Scott: How about - how about when you're looking up McKennas, how about a John T. - or Robert L.
Mrs. Toy: Yes, John, Jr., John A., John J. - Robert, R. C.
Scott: No - well, that's not much help, is it?
Mrs. Toy: Twenty-one McKennas in the book.
Scott: Twenty - that's nice, that's nice, and none of them have the initials that we're looking up. Oh, well, we'll see what we can find. [comments about serving coffee]
Mr. Toy: I've got a cousin about ninety years old - she lived in Long Row.
Mrs. Toy: She...
Scott: Oh, did she?
Mr. Toy: She raised her family in Long Row.
Scott: Well, you know, now, sometimes when you get older like that, you remember...
Mrs. Toy: Old things.
Scott: Older things much better than - she might be able to tell us some things about Long Row.
Mr. Toy: I set and interviewed her two or three times and tried to get things straight...
Mrs. Toy: Charlotte...
Mr. Toy: And Charlotte - now Aunt Charlotte was born and raised down there in the Toy cabin. But you know, I could never get her to tell me anything about it. I asked her about the bottling house - she says, "I don't remember anything about a bottling house." And my father was younger than her and he would tell me about the bottling house.
Mrs. Toy: That recent book - that blue book - said that Charlotte opened the tavern again after...
Mr. Toy: In 1933 when Prohibition was reduced...
Mrs. Toy: She did not, because - we'd remember that.
Scott: Yeah, yeah.
Mr. Toy: I never remember Aunt Charlotte having - I never remember anything being down there but apartments.
Scott: Well, you see, your Father might remember the bottling works because he might have had something to do with it, and your Aunt may not have anything to do with it.
Mr. Toy: Well, she lived right next door to it. She lived...
Scott: Yeah, but she might not have had anything to do with it - it was just a building somebody worked in to her, you know, or it didn't impress her.
Mr. Toy: She was the one that left the last piece of property to the Little Sisters of the Poor.
Scott: Oh yeah, yeah.
Mr. Toy: She lived to be about 94, 95 - I worked out there on the place - not too much, now I don't want you to think I went out there and dedicated myself - I didn't - when I was squeezed into it, I went out to fix the window or did something.
Scott: Yeah, I know what you...
Mr. Toy: And I was the only Toy around - left, you know, directly connected...and she used to always come and she'd say, "Dickie, I'm going to take care of you - Dickie, you've been a good son to your Father, and you took care of him and I'm not going to forget it." Well, I always thought that she would leave me the place down the creek.
Mr. Toy: She never married, she never...
Mrs. Toy: Had we been able to afford to fix it up, though...
Mr. Toy: But the thing of it was - why - now her sister married, her sister was a Frizzell...
Scott: M-huh, m-huh.
Mr. Toy: Frizzell - and they had children - Grace had children and then her other sister married Johnson, who was Nixie Johnson, the butcher and the Johnsons - the butchers on King Street. And they had children - what was the other boy's name? The lawyer?
Mrs. Toy: I don't remember his name. But one of them was a real estate agent and he, when we were selling our house, before we moved here, he came in with a group of realtors and looked through the house, and I, of course, did not know him, but he recognized our name. And he stopped at the door and he said, "We're related." And when I said, "How so?" And he said, "Through our Aunt Charlotte."
Mrs. Toy: Well, she's not his Aunt Charlotte, but she was Dick's Father's cousin. And I said, "Oh, you're just the man I want to see. Why did you let that property out of the family?" He said, "Oh, don't say anything," he said, "because we're just as upset as you must be." He said, "She left it to the Little Sisters who sold it."
Scott: Let's, sometime in early September, when this weather breaks, let's go out to Hagley and just walk around, look at all this stuff. Yes, 'cause there's Brandywine Manufacturers Sunday School is open, and I can take you in there and show you all that stuff, and we can look up along there and walk down along by Hagey's and stuff like that.
- The nephews of Mary McKenna, Daniel and Joseph, who were teachers at Rising Sun School in the late 19th century; other properties once owned by Toy family membersKeywords: McKenna, Mary, 1826-1885; Rising Sun Lane; TeachersTranscript: Mr. Toy: You know Mary's brother taught school - that was Mary's brother, but he taught...
Mrs. Toy: He came back from Smyrna because he was in ill health. His brother taught first.
Mr. Toy: No, he taught.
Scott: Now you say Mary McKenna...
Mr. Toy: Mary Toy's - yeah, Mary McKenna's brother - what's his name?
Scott: Oh, yeah?
Mrs. Toy: Let me...
Mr. Toy: He - you know the little school house right back of the bridge coming down Rising Sun Lane?
Scott: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mr. Toy: He taught that.
Scott: Oh, he taught there - oh that's interesting.
Mr. Toy: And then he gets sick and his brother took his job and taught.
Scott: Now wait a minute - that's not my Mary, 'cause she didn't have a brother named Joseph.
Mr. Toy: It was Tom's brother.
Scott: Okay, that must have been later on then because, Mary...
Mrs. Toy: That's next generation?
Scott: May have been because Mary had two brothers, or three - James, Neil and Daniel - the Mary that I have, right?
Mr. Toy: James...
Scott: And Neil, who was born in Ireland.
Mr. Toy: Now wait a minute, yeah, you're right, that would have been her - wouldn't have been her brother, would have been her uncle. James' son - yeah that would have been...
Scott: You have several Mary Toys.
Mr. Toy: Yes, I was wrong - what happened was - John Thomas [some low comments as he traces family] Elwood was hurt in the Spanish-American War...
Scott: Yes, says so in the Spanish-American War, March of 1888 or something like that.
Mr. Toy: When he come home from there - he had been damaged, he was never right.
Scott: Let's see, you've got several Mary's...
Mr. Toy: Now Rose married Frizzell, Ida married Johnson - Harry, Thomas, Charlotte.
Scott: Now, Rose, you said that married Frizzell, was the daughter of James - John Thomas Toy, right? John Thomas and Mary Elwood had Rose and they were the children of James Toy and Anna Curren, but you've got, you've got several Mary's down through here. Here's a Mary Virginia, and here's a Thomas and James - and you said something about the brothers.
Mr. Toy: Well, the one that had the bottling house, and married - was down in Smyrna - he was James' son - yeah, I was wrong. And James sent him down there to open a bottling house. I think James sort of ruled the roost. And I think they all - I don't think he ever relinquished claim on any of them. I think he was the political boss and also the...
Scott: Democratic headquarters and...
Mr. Toy: And he also carried the rest of the family. Because, as you can see, lots of the deeds have been sent to the...Thomas bought the properties, but in a year or two, deeded them back to James.
Scott: Oh, okay, okay.
Mr. Toy: You know what I mean - sort of like he was like front runner for James - on some deals and things and...
Mrs. Toy: This is about Daniel. Why did Daniel move to Smyrna? Because he married Anna B. Flynn, who was born in Smyrna. Daniel taught school at Rising Sun - Rising School Lane - the building is still standing - he became ill and his half-brother, Joseph, took over his duties until he could resume teaching; however, Daniel's illness was fatal.
Scott: Doesn't give you any dates of when they did that?
Mrs. Toy: No.
Scott: Daniel and Joseph, well let's see if we can find a Daniel and a Joseph in here as brothers and sisters.
Mr. Toy: That would be James'...
Scott: James' children - these are all James' right in here. See this is James..
Mr. Toy: Yeah, well he married Elwood...[low comments as he tries to trace James' family]. James H. -
Scott: No, James H. - but we don't have any children for him.
Mr. Toy: No, he never had no children - but there was never any children.
Scott: Well, no wait a minute.
Mrs. Toy: This was - Daniel lived at Smyrna... of twins.
Mr. Toy: Daniel you're lookin' for - I thought it was James.
Mrs. Toy: No - his brother, Joseph - Daniel and Joseph...
Scott: Here's a Joseph...
Mrs. Toy: He was a half brother to James, I mean to Daniel.
Scott: All right, let's find a Daniel...I don't see a Daniel here - here's another Joseph.
Mrs. Toy: Daniel married Annie B. Finn; if that's any help.
Scott: Daniel married Annie B. Finn? Here's a Daniel. Oh, here's Annie Finn, all right - Daniel was born in 1842 - let me get my magnifying glass here - Daniel was born in 1842, all right, and you say his brother - half brother, Joseph.
Mrs. Toy: Half brother, Joseph.
Scott: All right, let me find a Joseph over here - here's a Joseph, right who was born in 1857 and he was the son of McCallen and Toy and Daniel is Ann Curren and Toy, and Daniel did marry an Ann B. Finn of Smyrna, Delaware. Daniel died in 1877? So his disease may have been fatal, but he sure lasted a long time. Joseph was born in 1857 and died in 1935 in Brewster, New York, and he married a Catherine Rowe - R-O-W-E. So, you see, that is the next generation down, so that would have been Mary's nephews. Now I can use that, I can say that Mary's nephews were school teachers, two of them.
Mr. Toy: Yeah, Daniel taught in that little school and he got sick and his brother, Joseph, took over started teaching for him.
Scott: Yeah, I can say that - that's great, that's great.
Mr. Toy: And then Daniel's widow ended up...
Mrs. Toy: She had a notions store at 615 West 8th Street.
Mr. Toy: That's where I was born, 615 West 8th Street.
Scott: You were born at 615 West 8th Street, yeah?
Mr. Toy: That was another property the Toys owned and I think that anybody that wasn't working ended up there [laughs]. We lived at 615 West 8th - I was born there and I think Sissy was born there.
Mrs. Toy: You know what we found, and I can't remember any details, but in one of our cute little efforts of research, that they also owned a property across from St. Mary's Church at 6th and Pine which we weren't aware of. But we went down there, but we couldn't find any.
Mr. Toy: And they owned property over there on the other side of the Pike, back in where Green Hill Church is. I've got some copies of deeds...
- Scott detailing his research findings concerning Daniel Toy, d. 1832, who worked in the DuPont powder yardsKeywords: archival records; Company; Company stores; E.I. du Pont de Nemours & amp; historical research; ledgersTranscript: Scott: Well, I'm gonna work on what I do have here - I've got almost two sides of the tape, which is 90 minutes of tape. I've got some - I'll work on this, and then try to get some more questions, and sit down and we'll go through specifics, you know, if we can. And then I want to - I've got to go to a meeting downtown at noon, that's why I'm trying to wind this up - but I've got things in here that I have found and I've got more research to do at the Library for things that you might be interested in.
Mr. Toy: Yeah, I would...
Mrs. Toy: Yes, please don't forget us.
Scott: I'm going to - and just quickly look at my stuff here to tell you a few interesting things that I have found. I have Daniel as having five children - he had more than that because you've cleared that up. And you've cleared up the Nancy Toy - I'm sure that that's a Nancy Ann Toy - and, let's see, is there anything from Mary here that's - Tom - James Toy estate - I can get you some information on the James Toy estate. And the Thomas Toy of Henry Clay, Delaware, and Toy, Bickford, and Company...
Mrs. Toy: What was that?
Scott: That was somebody in Simsbury, Connecticut, who did business with the DuPont Company, so I can go back to those and find out what they are talking about. They bought power and fuses from them. And John Toy, whose son, Tom, owned a saloon, was on the Hagley payroll in 1818, saloon was on Creek Road around 1900 - was killed in the explosion in 1822. Daniel Toy, it says here, 24 August 1820 to 27 August 1832, was a Hagley Yard employee. He roomed with Owen King in May of 1820. In 1820 the boarding book, as a host for boarding other workers - so he was boarding other workers - this says in 1820 - I found it in 18 - I'll have to look. And there's tax receipts, and he was on the Hagley Powder roll from 5-20 to 8-20 - that's May to August, 1820, and he was a powderman. And I've got some things on Roseanna Toy, too, which - I have that Mary Toy two years lived with Mrs. B., and I don't know who Mrs. B. was - that's a cryptic note in here that I have.
Mr. Toy: Bogan.
Scott: Oh, I wonder if it could be Bogan.
Mr. Toy: It might be Bogan.
Scott: It might be Bogan.
Mr. Toy: You see, Bogan was ten years older, you know...
Mr. Toy: There was quite a difference in those ages.
Scott: Ann was - yes was - right, right. I'll see - that's good. And let's see, she was a student and, okay. That stuff we've covered. Ann lived originally - brothers and sisters - all right - Daniel Toy - he roomed with Owen King in 1820 and I do have information that in - let's see, this is 1820 - in May 21 of 1820 he paid, through the Company ledgers, Owen King $1.69. Then in June...
Mrs. Toy: Does it say what that was for - is that for his room?
Scott: That was for his room, you see, because I have it that he paid - he roomed with Owen King in May of 1820 - that's from one source. In another source, I have that he paid Owen King $1.69 on May 21, 1820. In June the 30th he paid him $.96, so that meant that he roomed sometime in June with him. So that family wasn't here at that point. They were probably in Philadelphia. So he came to this country in 1817 or 1818, as these things say, and lived in Philly for a while and then came down here and worked on the Brandywine. Now, let's see, in November of 1822, he was paid $8.00 by a Patrick, and I'm not sure how you spell this name, McConohy, it looks like, for rooming with the Toy family. He was paid that in November 30, December 31, and January 31, so it looked like - one, two, three, four months in '22 this guy roomed with the Toys and paid them eight bucks. And then I have the five children, which are...
Mrs. Toy: Do you know where that was?
Scott: No, I don't know where that was, but it was in Hagley and I'm assuming that Hagley is up by the Brandywine Manufacturers Sunday School 'cause that big house that was up there was called Hagley, so I'm assuming that's the area that was there. He dealt with A. Fountain and Company who was a store along there from June 30, 1820 to March 31, 1822, and I can go back and tell you how much money he spent each month with the Fountain's which is where he bought his supplies. And later on - I haven't gone into all these pay ledgers later on, I don't know if he still dealt with Fountain.
Mrs. Toy: I wonder why they kept that?
Mr. Toy: Well, Fountain, I mean the DuPont, Fountain evidently was an independent...
Scott: Well, what happened was that Daniel would go into Fountain's and pick up things that he needed. No money would be exchanged - Fountain would put that in the ledger - they would send that to the Company, the Company would give Fountain the credit for $5.46 that Daniel Toy purchased things. And no money was exchanged. Daniel would not get his paycheck and go pay Fountain.
Mr. Toy: No, no.
Mrs. Toy: Company store.
Scott: Now, if - well it was not necessarily
Mrs. Toy: No, but I mean, it could...
Scott: A. Fountain was tolerated, supported, or whatever you want, by the DuPont Company - there were Company stores, I don't know that A. Fountain was one of them, I'm going to have to check into that. But you see that's how they worked all this. Now, Daniel Toy needed eight bucks, he could go to a guy, and they'd write him out a check for eight bucks. He was getting paid twenty bucks, so he left the money in the bank because they gave him 6 percent interest for everything over a hundred dollars.
Mr. Toy: He didn't bother drawing any pay, he just worked on script or word of mouth or...
Mrs. Toy: But that amazing that these records were kept because, you know, in our generation we go through things on a regular basis and throw them away...
Scott: The official DuPont Company records, the du Pont's saved, to the best of my knowledge, every cotton pickin' piece of paper which is fantastic for us. The Library is full of letters that the girls wrote, letters that the people wrote to the girls, they saved everyone of them, and thank God they did - we have them. There was some girl by the name of McCann who wrote, I think, eight or nine letters and we have them. Now these are back in the early 1800's and the girl saved them, and one of the guys is doing research on the - so he can quote all these letters - I don't have anything on Mary.
Mrs. Toy: I must be like them in what I save. I have, from my grandmother and grandfather's wedding day, a telegram they received, I have a note that my grandfather wrote to my grandmother concerning their engagement, saying "As per our conversation, we will be married on such and such a date."
Scott: Oh, you're kidding me - that formal?
Mr. Toy: Oh, yeah. It sounded like a contract.
Scott: Let me just go - 'cause I've really got to get...
Mr. Toy: Yes, I want to know this, that we get...
Scott: Used Dr. Didier who was the Company doctor and he paid, on September 30, 1820, and December 28, he had some money taken for Dr. Didier for medicine. I have taxes, like on December 31, 1822, paid $1.28 in taxes. See these are things I find interesting, and I'll give you this. Worked from - he died in August of '32 and his wife got poor men's six days widow's pension, which I've told you about. And his pay record down through there and this is - oh here's A. Fountain - $5.12 in June 30, July 30 of 1820 he paid him $1.22, August 31, $2.98 paid the Fountain Store. This is when he got his raise, here's Dr. Didier $1.02, and $1.31 down here - to the Sunday School on December 30, 1820, he paid $.50 because he was married. And in 1822 he paid two subscriptions for church - $1.00, so they came around and asked for subscriptions for church and he paid that. Somewhere down in here I have him - oh, in September 20, 1824, he paid two subscriptions to college - $1.00, and I understand that they went around through the powder yard employees and said, "John Dokes is going to college, would you like to contribute to his college fund?" So, he apparently gave them a buck, which is something, you know, when you're only making twenty bucks a month, a buck is a lot of money.
Mr. Toy: You're not kidding.
Scott: This is all on Daniel Toy, all down through here, and these are the various ledgers and the pages in the ledgers, so I've got a tremendous amount to go through, you see, to pick all this stuff up.
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