Interview with Katherine Kindbeiter Hazzard, 1985 May 11 [audio](part 2)

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  • Getting a radio; Square dancing; Throwing away garbage; Soap and washing; Childhood friends; Owning a Victrola; Talking about Hazzard's former neighbor, Jenney Toomey
    Keywords: Fire; Friends; Garbage; Gardens; Ivory soap; Jenney Toomey; Octagon soap; Radio; Soap; Square dancing; Victory Gardens; Victrola
    Transcript: Johnson: Do you remember where you first heard a radio?

    Hazzard: Well, they used to start making their own. It seemed like, the first time I ever saw one – I don't know whether it was some bread company or something, was giving out a cardboard it was, like this, and all these dials were on it you know -couldn't get nothin'. And then my brother started to put one together and we could get something then, then my father went over to Sears and bought one rounded like a clock, you know. Oh, and that was great.

    Johnson: Do you remember square dancing - did you ever do that?

    Hazzard: Yeah.

    Johnson: Oh, where would that have been?

    Hazzard: Up at Hagley. Kids all loved that.

    Johnson: Would they have regular - would it be once a week?

    Hazzard: Well, the dance or whatever they were having, you know.

    Johnson: Do you remember any fires?

    Hazzard: Fires?

    Johnson: Yes.

    Hazzard: Yeah, we had one in our chimney when I was a kid. Everybody was up in the whole block, but my sister and I, they never woke us up. The fire engines were there - oh, we were so mad in the morning, we didn't see it. You know, the smoke, I guess, from the kitchen or grease got in the chimney.

    Johnson: Yes, it builds up.

    Hazzard: From the cookstove.

    Johnson: But the house wasn't damaged or anything?

    Hazzard: No.

    Johnson: Do you remember where people would dump garbage, were there garbage dumps around?

    Hazzard: No, I can't - they come and picked it up, I guess, because there were no...

    Johnson: You wouldn't go pick bottles out and sell the bottles or anything like that?

    Hazzard: Oh, lot of times, yeah, if Pierre Ferraro had a rag, like a rag man we called him, and he'd buy all the iron and pieces of iron, copper and rags and newspapers. If you'd bring them at noon on Saturday, we'd get a few pennies, you know, for doing it

    Johnson: Do you remember what kind of soap your mother used?

    Hazzard: Octagon - usually in the kitchen and Ivory, you'd see them Ivory all the time.

    Johnson: Would she wash your hair in the Ivory soap?

    Hazzard: Yep.

    Johnson: She wouldn't have special shampoo...

    Hazzard: I don't think they made it then.

    Johnson: Do you remember anybody who made their own soap?

    Hazzard: I've heard of people doing it, but she always had Ivory soap, and it never ruined our hair, it's as thick as - have to get it thinned out all the time. In fact, I didn't use shampoo on our kids’ heads until practically they were able to buy it theirself, 'cause they'd waste it, and I guess they didn't do it. I had eight children, nine altogether. She's next to the youngest, her and another one, I always said they were the second family, you know, the two younger ones. 'Cause the one before, there was four years difference. No, six years difference between her and him, four years between him and the one that died, so that made two families.

    Johnson: Yes - the older ones take care of the younger ones.

    Hazzard: They got spoiled more.

    Johnson: When you had a garden, or your mother had a garden, do you remember some of the things that she grew?

    Hazzard: Oh, Pop used to tend to that: tomatoes and potatoes and...

    Johnson: Did you grow cucumbers?

    Hazzard: Oh, yeah - scallions and...

    Johnson: How about squash?

    Hazzard: Yeah, he had some squash. I'll tell you where they had the gardens then, we might have had a small patch at home, but I guess it was during the war -it's the golf course now, right across from the Experimental Station, up at the top of the hill. So much space was given to everybody for Victory Gardens.

    Johnson: Did they grow asparagus?

    Hazzard: No. The only places I ever remember asparagus growing then was over at the Rectory at St. Joseph's.

    Johnson: Oh, they grew asparagus there?

    Hazzard: Yeah, they had it for their own use, that's – and I never remember much about asparagus. I can't remember saying we had it.

    Johnson: Did you use fertilizer on the gardens?

    Hazzard: I don't know.

    Johnson: And how about watering, would you water it with a hose or...

    Hazzard: Well, if it was up there, wouldn't be any watering to do.

    Johnson: You had to carry the water.

    Hazzard: Yeah, depended on the rain, I think.

    Johnson: Yes. And who was your best friend when you were little, do you remember?

    Hazzard: Well, the Hackendorns across the creek and Ella Fitzharris, of course, she was a cousin, and the Bonners, you know. We run around with all them, was a gang of us. Grace Toy, she lived on Breck’ s Lane, and Irene Plummer lived on Rising Sun Lane. We had plenty to run around with. 'Course you weren't afraid then, you could walk all over the creek or...

    Johnson: Did you ever go in town together on the trolley and would you go to the movies together?

    Hazzard: Yeah, most of the time it would be in an afternoon or something to the movies.

    Johnson: Did you ever have a stereopticon in your home before they had movies and things?

    Hazzard: No, just a Victrola and radio.

    Johnson: Was the Victrola the kind that you wind?

    Hazzard: Oh, yeah, was about that high.

    Johnson: Do you remember any of the records that you had for it?

    Hazzard: I don't know, I remember the Christmas they got it, it was for my oldest brother, oldest two brothers, I guess. It was a Columbia, when you opened the door at the bottom, you could press a button and the record would pop out to you.

    Johnson: Did you have records of jokes rather than music, do you remember anything like that?

    Hazzard: Oh, a lot those were songs and things.

    Johnson: Did you have opera stars or singers that you would remember?

    Hazzard: Then we - of course I bought I don't know how many for these kids. And I went one Christmas, went up to the store there at Union Street and I bought -was it "Twenty-nine Tons"...

    Johnson: I remember that.

    Hazzard: And all those: "Mother, how did you know how to buy these?" They couldn't get over it, the ones I bought. They picked them out up there (laughs).

    Johnson: How about Christmas carols, would you play those?

    Hazzard: Oh, we always had Bing Crosby or one of them.

    Johnson: I think that pretty well covers it. Can you think of anything else?

    Hazzard: No. Have you ever interviewed Ella Fitzharris?

    Johnson: Yes, they interviewed her many years ago.

    Hazzard: She lives down here now, Delaware Avenue and Clayton, that big three-story apartment.

    Johnson: Oh.

    Hazzard: Yes, she lived up the Brandywine before, and she had to move. Her next-door neighbor is still there, Jenney Toomey. She's been there for years and years.

    Johnson: I interviewed her and she is...

    Hazzard: She is wonderful.

    Johnson: She is so nice.

    Hazzard: I mean, for her age, you ought to see her shopping, neat as a new pin: she goes so fast around the corner: she puts me to shame. I can remember going to see her, cutting through the woods, and we always called it Miss Mary's, it was that big white house that's up there, then down, and a path right across from her house from Breck’ s Lane, when her first child was born. Her niece went to school with us. Come on, we'll see the baby. God, she took about fifteen of us in to see the new baby. I can remember that so well, if it was one of ours did that, I'd kill 'em. All of us coming from school, in to - up to the bedroom and saw the new baby (laughs). But she is remarkable, I think she is 89.

  • Talking about Hazzard's former neighbor, Jenney Toomey; Hazzard's children and grandchildren; Evening routine as a child
    Keywords: Children; Evening routines; Grandchildren; Great-grandchildren; Jane Toomey; Jenny Toomey; Midwives
    Transcript: Johnson: Yes, and her memory is perfect and she says she still bakes cookies for all of her children and grandchildren.

    Hazzard: Yeah - she has a son dying of cancer right now, and her oldest daughter died with it, I think, and Jack, the oldest boy. She didn't have an easy life, but she was always the same, Jenney.

    Johnson: It's not the son that lives with her who's dying, is it?

    Hazzard: No, it's another one. I think he has children, but they're grown now. And Jane, her daughter, Jane, she married a fellow by the name of Best, he lived there on, across - up the road, those houses are torn down, I think, closer to the powder mill.

    Johnson: Did he work for the powder yards?

    Hazzard: No.

    Johnson: For DuPont.

    Hazzard: 'Cause he's a way younger than I am. And Jane was so happy-go-lucky, she had her mother every place all the time. And she always knew you, you know. She died pretty quick. I don’ t know how Jenney every got over that.

    Johnson: I should think she would miss her just awfully.

    Hazzard: Yeah - 'cause Jane was just so full of life. Then her has just another daughter, Mary - I don't know if she has three more sons, or not - the one at home, and the one that has cancer, and another one. The oldest boy had died and Jane died, but Jane always had her mother everywhere, so I know Jenney really missed her.

    Johnson: Now was Jane the baby that you went to see?

    Hazzard: No, her brother was older. Oh, we went in to see her too. We come down over the hill from school, and into her house. The baby was born during the night and Mary Doughtery, her niece, took us in. I'd have killed her if our kids had done that. Those days they didn't go to the hospital. My grandmother used to go around and deliver most of them.

    Johnson: But she wouldn't have delivered that baby anymore, I guess.

    Hazzard: No - she still was doing it I think. I don't think she did that, 'cause she had sisters that were, you know, older, had children. But she's really remarkable. I meet her sometimes shopping at the Acme on Saturday morning at - anywhere around seven or after, her and the boy.

    Johnson: He's gotten interested in her family too.

    Hazzard: Huh?

    Johnson: He's gotten interested in her family too, he's been helping.

    Hazzard: Yeah, and she worked for years at Ross', I think, cooking - feels sticky - candy in your white - it's really sticky. I have 27 grandchildren so – and seven great, so you can see why the place gets sticky and dirty. Now when Marie comes in – they were here twice yesterday, her kids: she runs them here for swimming lessons, she runs them there, and they're on their way past and they all stop.

    Johnson: Well, that's nice.

    Hazzard: She lives at Oak Lane Manor, that's right off Shipley Road, turn in there, then you take a turn into where she lives. She has a nice place, six bedrooms, which she needs.

    Johnson: Yes, how many children does she have?

    Hazzard: Six, and just like - the two youngest have a room together, then the other four have a room and Tom and Marie. They're nice sized rooms – it’ s really a big house. You go up one level and there's two bedrooms and a bath, if you just go down the hall a little bit and up about five more steps and the four bedrooms up there. I mean, she was lucky to get it because she stayed idle for six months before they decided to buy it. She says I figured they held it off for us. (Noise in tape.)Got about seventy-two for it, and that was cheap.

    Johnson: That's a nice area, too.

    Hazzard: Oh yeah. She lived over St. Elizabeth's Parish - she had a nice little house, but they were bulging out, you know.

    Johnson: Yes, and it's nice for children to have their own room. I think those workers must have had quite a time when they had to fit all the children into one room.

    Hazzard: We really had big rooms.

    Man's voice: That's your rubber band.

    Hazzard: I got arthritis in my legs and hips.

    Johnson: But I guess it was so cold up there they didn't spend more time than just to sleep and then they'd come down again.

    Hazzard: Sometimes put bricks in the oven, wrap them in a piece of old flannel or newspaper, then flannel and put them in bed before you got in. But I remember getting out of bed, standing in my bare feet lookin' out the window, if we heard kids passing, 'cause we had to go to bed early, you know. When we were told to go, we had to go. But I remember getting out looking - it'd be dark, but they would still be out, some of them.

    Johnson: And you'd be watching?

    Hazzard: In our bare feet.

    Johnson: What were some of the games that they - would you see them playing their games still at that time of night?

    Hazzard: Well, they'd be _______________ somewhere most likely then.

    Johnson: Do you know Dr. Seitz?

    Hazzard: Yeah.

    Johnson: She said that the children didn't mind the heat either, she said she can remember her brother being up in his attic bedroom spinning those - you know those games where you spin the dial, just take your turn - said he didn't mind.

    Hazzard: Yes, she's a very good friend of one of my boys, the twin, his picture's here, there's three sets of them. That's him here, this one, she's a good friend of his. Here's my father, and my sister and I...

    Johnson: Oh, this is one of you in the picture...

    Hazzard: And this is my twins, and this is my grandson's twins.

    Johnson: Oh, so three generations.

    Hazzard: Three generations.

    Johnson: Aren't they handsome!

    Hazzard: Pete and Billy - they were named for their grandfathers. I was always on that side, in all the pictures they took.

    Johnson: So they could tell you apart in later years (laughs). Aren't they sweet?

    Hazzard: This one is tall, he was, he should have been Peter and he should have Bill, 'cause the Hazzards were tall, the men. Of course there's not much difference in their heights, but...

    Johnson: Now which one is that on the mantelpiece?

    Hazzard: This one, they're just stacked up.

    Johnson: That's nice, thank you. Well, thank you very much for talking to me again.

    Hazzard: Oh, you're welcome.

    Johnson- Are you going to sit outside?

    Hazzard: Yeah, I think maybe I'll lay down: get the cane out.

    Johnson: Yes, well thank you very much for talking...

    (Noise as they go outside.)

    Johnson: It's hotter outside than inside. Well, thanks again, and hope they'll have another party and you can come.

    Hazzard: Yes, it was really nice that day.